My Bangladeshi MANGO plant

[Azhar]

This Is a bangladeshi variety. The kernel is half the size as a normal one and germinated really quick.

I think its Polyembronic. The green Leafed one is a normal Mango kernal it stopped growing after the first 4 leaves. The leaves have all curled up and 2 leaves have dropped off.

[Riz]

salaam azhar..

welcome to muslimgrower :)

thats a beauty !! are you leaving it by the window or do you take it outdoors when its really sunny ?

[Kirsten]

Azhar, welcome :)

I'm having the same leaf drop problem as you with my mango...

[~Obsidian~]

Welcome Azhar!

That first pic is a beauty:rose8:

Are you living in a clime where it's likely to flourish?

I'm thinking of trying to germinate a pakistani mango seed next year!

[Azhar]

Wa alaikum as salam

I leave it by the window sil. the front window in the morning and rear window at midday. My family think im crazy. I'm gonna start another 7 today. I learnt the germination from Riz, so thanks bro.

I live in the uk, london and have no garden. So i hope everything works out well. Does anyone know why my pakistani mango is curling. My mum says its normal. Anyway check out the pics below. Obviously you would be able to tell the difference between the pakistani and the bangladeshi kernals.

[~Obsidian~]

UK? Yippee!! Are you starting them now?
Nice pics, have they ever been outside? During this summer? When did you start them?

[Riz]

salaam azhar.

thanks for the pics,, yes indeed the bengali kernel is a lot smaller. You can leave them outdoors on the pavement when its a really warm day it will grow lot quicker than indoors even on a overcast day. So what are you going to do with all these when they are huge plants ? :)

[Riz]

UK? Yippee!! Are you starting them now?
Nice pics, have they ever been outside? During this summer? When did you start them?

you can start the seeds anytime you feel like it.. obviousley through the winter months you cant have them outdoors, but along as you provide light, warmth,water to them they will grow indoors, the fan leaves eventually will spread out and get atleast 3 feet wide so it makes a great indoor plant.

[~Obsidian~]

you can start the seeds anytime you feel like it.. obviousley through the winter months you cant have them outdoors, but along as you provide light, warmth,water to them they will grow indoors, the fan leaves eventually will spread out and get atleast 3 feet wide so it makes a great indoor plant.

:natur014:
Now I just need to get some more mangoes..

[Azhar]

They have never been outside as i dont have a garden and dont get the full days sun, so they are moved from the front to the rear everyday.

I have no idea what to do with them when their huge, i may give them away. I'm engaged so some may end up in my future father in laws garden which is huge.

Any below are the ones i planted in small pots today. Insallah they will grow like their older brother.

The other pic you see is one that stopped growing, i didnt want it to rot so i eased the plant out of hte kernal and tied the kernal with string. I've put a bag over it for humidity, hopefully it will grow, i know early 'births' aint healthy but insallah it will grow.

Surprisingly the bangladeshi mango germinates really quick the leaves come out within a few days. its absolutely amazing.

PS. How cute are those bangladeshi kernals they look like little magdalene cakes. My mum says the trees get really big.

[Riz]

When the mango plant grows its fan leaves get bigger and wider so they will require more sunlight than a small plant would... Sometimes the lack of quality light just stops them from growing more, they just look like as if they have stopped growing, the same thing happened to my plant that i kept indoors in the winter months so i put it under a grow light and within 2 days i was getting a new set of leaves every other day...

[Riz]

the little bengali mangos would be great for pickling ( achaar) espically when they are green...

[Azhar]

which one are you talking about riz, the pakistani one or the bengaly one thats stopped growing. let me know cos its kinda worrying. p.s bangladeshi mangos are really sweet when der ripe, i mean really concentratd but they would maake lovely chutney when their young. I got a dominican of republic mango which is smaller then the banga ones.

[Riz]

which one are you talking about riz, the pakistani one or the bengaly one thats stopped growing. let me know cos its kinda worrying.


sorry brother.. but can you re-phrase the question ?

thanks.

[Azhar]

I was wondering which one you where talking about that would need more sunlight cos my pakistani mango is curling up.

ANyway check out the progress.

[Azhar]

sorry the pics are here

[~Obsidian~]

That plant looks nice and exotic! How big is the container/how old is the plant? Have you had to transplant it? (And if you have what was the rootspread like?)

[Azhar]

The pot is around 10-12 cm radius. and around 10cm deep. I havnt Had to transplant. and its around 2 weekds old, it grows quite well.

[~Obsidian~]

Oh great :) so just to get this straight, this is a bengali variety?

[Azhar]

yea straight from bangladesh. the Mango grows really small like half the ones you see in supermarkets. But their very sweet. Some of the ones i grew already had roots comeing out the kernal. So they were very fresh and ripe. Not chilled or had any chemical membranes on them like the supermarkets.

[Riz]

I was wondering which one you where talking about that would need more sunlight cos my pakistani mango is curling up.

ANyway check out the progress.

they look great azhar.
Through autumn and winter when there is lack of quality light and the days get shorter it can be a probelm to get light to the plants unless you have a heated greenhouse, or indoor light setup using grow lights, the curling of the leaf could be over watering or lack of light ( the leafs get really droopy) or too many nutrients ( thats if you are using them). if the mango seedlings look as if they are not growing more leafs, then there is not enough light for them ( not enough quality light)

[Riz]

salaam azhar...

Whats the latest on the pakistani and bengali mangoes !?!??

[Azhar]

The pakistani mango died. the bangladeshi mango grew two new leaves, they got black spots on them and started going see through, so i chopped them off.

[~Obsidian~]

Looking good! I tried growing pakistani mangoes myself, got them to germinate and then a squirrel stole one and the other went mouldy :o

[Azhar]

I got huge problems, as you may be able to see i have 3 mango pants growing in one huge pot. THe leaves have started to go brown and are dying on one, however new growth is emerging but with black tips on them

The second plant to the right has 1 leaf going brown and the tips of others going black. And the little stem in the middle is a separate plant with no leaves but their is growth emerging.

When i transplanted the plants i soaked it in water then i put it in this thick ceramic pot. I think its getting wet feet. growth stopped as soon as winter set in however i got this 250w green Flourescent Light which has encorouged new growth however i only put it on occasionally after 5.00pm when it gets dark (the plants are still on the window sill) The only plant that hasnt got any brown leaves but does have some black tips is the one in the last picture. it is light green and none of the plants have had any nutrients.

[Tania]

You have to buy a fungicide. I will treat my wallnut for the same reason with Topsin.

[Riz]

I got huge problems, as you may be able to see i have 3 mango pants growing in one huge pot. THe leaves have started to go brown and are dying on one, however new growth is emerging but with black tips on them

are u giving then any nutrients ? if so what kind and how much ?



When i transplanted the plants i soaked it in water then i put it in this thick ceramic pot. I think its getting wet feet. growth stopped as soon as winter

soaked what in water, the roots or the whole plant including leaves ? how often do you water the mango seedlings ?


set in however i got this 250w green Flourescent Light which has encorouged new growth however i only put it on occasionally after 5.00pm when it gets dark (the plants are still on the window sill)

250 watt flo light.. really !!? how many lumens ?
how far is the light hanging from the mango plants ?
do you have a fan blowing in that room for fresh air flow ?

how often do you use the light ?

how big is the room ?



edit: ok. so you dont give any nutrients to any of them ? the yellowing of the leaves and the burning of the tips could be too much water to often and the browning of the leaves could be due to no goodness being in the soil, so its begging for some nutrients . high nitrogen feed...

[Azhar]

i'm not giving them nutrients, also i repotted it in a foot and a quarter high and a three quarter foot wide ceramic pot. Which is very thick. before i transplanted it, i soaked the soil and havn't watered it since. I dont know how many Lumens the light is. However it is hanging about an inch from the plant but i only put the light on occasionally.

The room is a box room and has damp. It gets quite cold...but still....i managed to grow something!

[Riz]

cold damp place is not ideal for any kind of grow apart from mushrooms :) if you can get rid of the damp and get some airflow in the box room, they will grow more healthier.. how much heat does that light give off ?. did you buy it or inherit it ?.

you need to get a desktop fan inside that room azhar, if the soil is dry and it needs a watering then i suggest some nutrients high in nitrogen, they will bounce back quicker .. i got a 1.00gbp thermometer from pound stretcher with that you will know what temps in that boxroom.. well spring is aound the corner so inshallah they will love the natural light soon enough....

[Azhar]

it doesnt need a fan as the heat the light gives off doesnt even burn my finger ips. Its very very very warm but not really hot if thats accurate. There is airflow but i thinks its cold air coming in. i'm keeping an eye on it. I'v realised how picky mango plants are. I dont think its hot or humid enough for it especially as it lacks proper sunlight. Also yes i bought it from basement lighting.

[Riz]

can i see the pic of the light please !!!? if possible

[Azhar]

Heres a link to the place i bought it from, its the exact same but dont be fooled into thinking its small, its about 30cm long and 10cm wide.

http://www.basementlighting.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?page=1/prod/elc250

The pic below is one that i found on google images. I'm sorry i cant take a pic of my own light as i dont have a camera at the moment.

Also i have fed the palnts with miracle grow and have sprayed some insecticides and fungacide that is usually used for rose bush's.

[Azhar]

Light Picture, Its the exact same as mine but i dont grow the same plants....too easy.

[tahir_phoenix]

i'm not giving them nutrients, also i repotted it in a foot and a quarter high and a three quarter foot wide ceramic pot. Which is very thick. before i transplanted it, i soaked the soil and havn't watered it since. I dont know how many Lumens the light is. However it is hanging about an inch from the plant but i only put the light on occasionally.

The room is a box room and has damp. It gets quite cold...but still....i managed to grow something!

I think Riz's advice and comments are correct Azhar. Mine's in a ceramic pot as well so that can't be a prob. The main problem is def the cold room, I kept my Mango on the windowsill in the living room just above a radiator and even though at night its been freezing the mango has done quite well and now has shot up some new leaves over the last two weeks!

Also I didn't repot it and hardly watered it at all, just sprayed it with a mist every few days. :GreenThumbs:

[Riz]

hey T

thats a great looking healthy mango seedling...(plant) It is doing really well...


azhar..

have you noticed a considerable improvement of your plants under the grow light, ?

because usually it should be on a 12/12 light schedule 12 hours ON and 12 hours OFF ( it should be mimicking the sun)
it needs that amount, couple of hours occasionally is not enough at all.. you're just wasting your time, the minimum amount should be at least 6 hours of light per day. otherwise its just a tease for the mango plants as they grow in hot humid places.. so the cold air is not good for it, it needs decent airflow and at least room temperatures, otherwise they will grow very slow indeed... get yourself a timer for 2.99 and hook it up for a 12 x 12 schedule or 18/6 ( 6 hours of light per day) and you will be better of for it.. and sow some veg seeds there as well make use of the light and you can plant out vegetable plants outdoors and get a real head start....

[Riz]

i use a 400 watt HPS ( high pressure sodium) light, with a growlux agricultural bulb ideal for flowering, but not for vegetative growth for that one can use a MH light ( metal halide) or the one you are using ( even better) as it doesn't give off any heat and is cheap to run,, the veg bulb has a different spectrum of light than the flowering bulb

i have 2 x400 watt HPS lights and i use one of them to grow my chilis indoors, but i used the HPS flowering bulb to grow from seed, i had good airflow and 2 small desktop fans placed at either side of my grow, for a cross breeze.. the HPS light gives of heat so having decent air flow really helps..

[Riz]

and of course i use a mechanical timer instead of a digital one, as the former dont break down as often...

some plants are photo-period so they need total darkness as well as light every 12 hours,

unlike chillis were you can give them 24 hours of light and they will grow twice as fast, that's the beauty of growing indoors, you are "mother nature" you control all elements, water, air,heat, light, darkness, you can trick the plant into flowering early if you manipulate the light schedule...

[tahir_phoenix]

hey T

thats a great looking healthy mango seedling...(plant) It is doing really well...



Salaam Riz - the mango plant WAS looking good but one of the new leaves has gone shrivelly and dropped off - is this the end for Mr. mango?? :(

What do u reckon has caused this as its been surviving ok all winter and the weather has got much better recently + plus I haven't given it any nutrients so far :confused:

I think it needs repotting, can i do this now or wait till May??

[Nife180]

Salaam Riz - the mango plant WAS looking good but one of the new leaves has gone shrivelly and dropped off - is this the end for Mr. mango?? :(

What do u reckon has caused this as its been surviving ok all winter and the weather has got much better recently + plus I haven't given it any nutrients so far :confused:

I think it needs repotting, can i do this now or wait till May??

You may have the same problem I have I noticed the young leaves of the mango I just bought had a small white spot underneath one leave, that leave was young and It was going brown and curly.

I trimmed that leave and sprayed the plant with a sodium bicarbonate/dishwashing soap/Oil solution, that was yesterday today I powdered it with Cinnamon powder which turns out to be a strong fungicide.

If it's a fungus then a heavy coat of cinnamon should annihilate it's err.. existence. It's best if you spray the plant with water to help the cinnamon stick, I heard of people using Elmer's glue (white, water soluble) with cinnamon to let it stick for a long period. But I don't like chemicals or synthetic stuff, btw Cinnamon also works on soil.

[Riz]

Salaam Riz -
What do u reckon has caused this as its been surviving ok all winter and the weather has got much better recently + plus I haven't given it any nutrients so far :confused:

I think it needs repotting, can i do this now or wait till May??

you can check if it needs repotting, tease it out of the pot gently and see if its "rootbound" usually the roots go around the base of the pot...

It would be better if you used "miracle grow" compost if you are going to re pot the mango plant, it may be crying out for nutrients...

[Riz]

You may have the same problem I have I noticed the young leaves of the mango I just bought had a small white spot underneath one leave, that leave was young and It was going brown and curly.



well...

when they cut a cutting of the mango plant it does not have any roots and it extracts the moisture from the AIR using the leaves, so it doesn't have much energy to do anything else..

think about if someone lost a limb, he wouldn't really feel that good for a while, lol know what i mean !!?

i wouldn't worry too much about the browning on YOUR mango plant, just water it well and leave it in the sun....

[Nife180]

The thing is it's established, It's rooted already and 6 months old. there was something sticky underneath the leave, scratched it then white powdery stuff came out. It may have been a larvae though.

Anyway I checked on two mango seeds I started two weeks ago after being inspired by this thread, two of them have rooted. One in the soil & the second in paper tissue, The one in the soil Is still germinating, while the one in the paper towel has showed good progress it may have died as the pit is swelling and has cracked from the bottom it has gone black and it's been 1 week since for that seed and it hasn't showed any progress.

I'm growing it from an alphonso mango, will it be true to type, or even produce mangos?

[Riz]

it wont be true to type.. and it probably will fruit, but the fruit will be very fibrous really fleshy and not juicy

[tahir_phoenix]

it wont be true to type.. and it probably will fruit, but the fruit will be very fibrous really fleshy and not juicy

So what you're saying is that cuttings from a healthy plant are better :GreenThumbs:

But plants in the wild grow through seed dispersal from birds and animals etc. yet I'm sure they produce good quality fruit, so I'm a bit confused?? :confused:

I'll try some chicken manure pellets I bought a few weeks ago when I repot Mr. Mango into a larger pot!

[edibles]

So what you're saying is that cuttings from a healthy plant are better :GreenThumbs:

But plants in the wild grow through seed dispersal from birds and animals etc. yet I'm sure they produce good quality fruit, so I'm a bit confused?? :confused:

I'll try some chicken manure pellets I bought a few weeks ago when I repot Mr. Mango into a larger pot!

no not true to type.
occasionally they can make good quality fruit, and thats how new varieties are born

[Riz]

So what you're saying is that cuttings from a healthy plant are better :GreenThumbs:

But plants in the wild grow through seed dispersal from birds and animals etc. yet I'm sure they produce good quality fruit, so I'm a bit confused?? :confused:

definitely need to do more reading on this subject, we should compile a factual thread for everyone..

well if you have one apple tree in your garden and it self pollinates the fruit will be bitter, but if you have 2 apple trees in your garden ( like i have) and most people have it will cross pollinate giving tasty juicy fruit..

the cutting from the mango tree was probably taken from a tree that's been already pollinated, so the rootstock ( cuttings) will grow great juicy mangos and not fibrous bitter ones.

I think it was charles darwin who did the first self pollination experiments were he found that even the same species of flowers, cross pollinate flowers are bigger stronger and more superior than the flowers that have self pollinated even from the same species of flowers.

[tahir_phoenix]

definitely need to do more reading on this subject, we should compile a factual thread for everyone..

well if you have one apple tree in your garden and it self pollinates the fruit will be bitter, but if you have 2 apple trees in your garden ( like i have) and most people have it will cross pollinate giving tasty juicy fruit..

the cutting from the mango tree was probably taken from a tree that's been already pollinated, so the rootstock ( cuttings) will grow great juicy mangos and not fibrous bitter ones.

Thanks for this indepth info - this makes more sense now but i will further lengthen the debate :cool: by asking if the mother plant has already been self pollinated and produces tasty fruit, won't the seeds of that fruit go onto produce another healthy plant (of course with correct pollination)?? Obviously when we buy fruit from the supermarket we can't tell if the mother plant was any good but surely seeds from good plants can be used to create more good plants.

The apple tree example is interesting, considering I have two trees (like u) in my garden I would expect most of the fruit to be tasty but only about 15% of the apples are delicious?

I will do more research on this issue :GreenThumbs:

[~Obsidian~]

I think you mean scion Riz? Not rootstock?

[Nife180]

Here's one of the two seeds i've germinated, this one is the one in soil. Which started germinating. Err, 5 days ago after It's been in the soil for 3-4 weeks. It was my fault. I neglected the soil, But It's doing well. I planted it with the hump part in the soil, the seed is exposed a bit, I can't wait for the leaves to form, the I've been checking the roots daily and it is growing. The other one in paper towel is dead :P

I'll will pollinate this one with my other mango cutting inshallah if this one survives and sets flower, hopefully It won't be a bitter hybrid.

[Nife180]

My tree needs your help, The leaves shriveled and are crunchy. The stem is still green. I re-potted it in not to moist , fresh potting soil in the sun as the roots were still small. I'm gonna put It in a small pot and hopefully Buds will sprout new leaves. I think It's because of root drown. Because the soil was wet. The roots couldn't absorb all that water. The large pot is currently drying in the sun because the tiny flies hate it, and they all flew away. I will let it go very dry. before I plant Cantaloupe in it.

[Riz]

^ take some close pics of the plant so we can all see....

do you give it nutrients or fertilizer ? if so how much and how often ?

how often do you water them ?

[Nife180]

My Little friend says Hi, It just popped out today. Finally This is a Pakistani or Bengali variety. The Two Alphonso seeds I've tried grew roots then the fungus got them. My success with this seed is partially because I sprinkled cinnamon (a natural fungicide) on the soil, I just saw the seedling while returning home. I re-potted it but I accidentally severed 1/4 of the tap root. Will it be okay. There's still a lot of root on it. So I'll guessing it'll do okay, right?

So how is everyone's seedling doing? Any progress?

[tahir_phoenix]

Well done! and I'll try the cinnamon on the soil with my next mango seed. My first seedling has been repotted and given nutrients but as of yet has done nothing so I am keeping a close eye on it to make sure it doesn't get worse!

We need more sun and warm weather!!! :sunny:

[Azhar]

Salaam Alaikum

just a quick update. just before the clock went forwards by 1 hour, Both my Mango plants started showing new growth. It was amazing. The one that was poorly only produced one shoot. The other one produced several shoots. i cannot believe it.

The first 2 pictures are of the one that was poorly and the last three is the one that wasnt.

Please also note that the humidity in my room when enclosed by the curtains is 80%. Which is supposed to be excellent for mango plants. Also the tips of both plants couldnt sustain new growth, they tried but it was tiny white slithers which went black/brown and died.

[~Obsidian~]

Wa Alaikum AsSalaam

Great Azhar! How old are the plants now?

[Azhar]

around ten months, i started it around august last year.

[Nife180]

I left my Mango seedling for three days, because I was at the seaside. I came back and It's doing well. I lost 3 Tomatoes, 1 Cantaloupe, 1 Watermelon. But all the rest are ok. The growth has been great and inshallah it will thrive and not die.

[edibles]

I got germination today, two out of two:):)

sorry about the lighting in the pic going for artistic shots

as of today

[Nife180]

Cool, Now I suggest you keep it in the soil. With my Alphonso Mango I peeked every one/two days. Then it died before the sprout came out, But with this one I left it alone and it took a while to germinate. Good luck :)

My Mango seedlings leaves are a strange limey/greenish/purplish colour. Strange I know :p

[tahir_phoenix]

Hey Ed - well done with the seed! I have good news also, the mango seedling i had almost given up for dead is showing signs of new growth - and I'm copying u with the arty photos - but still need practice :p

Nife - my new leaves last year were a reddish purple colour but the new ones this year seem more greeny?

[edibles]

Hey Ed - well done with the seed! I have good news also, the mango seedling i had almost given up for dead is showing signs of new growth - and I'm copying u with the arty photos - but still need practice :p

Nife - my new leaves last year were a reddish purple colour but the new ones this year seem more greeny?

your pics are fine very nice in fact:)

the reddish purple colour is because they either come from the tropics or frost free subtropics(seedlings in summer) so the light intensity is expected to be high, the red/purple protects young leaves from the light as well as burning heat.

one more misconception is that they love humidity, their are two types of mango indian derived forms(including pak mangos) intolerant of high humidity
and phillipenes derived mangoes which love humidity

ps: nice plant

[~Obsidian~]

the reddish purple colour is because they either come from the tropics or frost free subtropics(seedlings in summer) so the light intensity is expected to be high, the red/purple protects young leaves from the light as well as burning heat.


Thats very interesting, I must find out more about it!

[Nife180]

So, The Alphonso seedling died, could be because I snipped 1/2 the root of while re-potting or too much sun, I suspect sun. It's better anyway. Our Hypermarket was having an offer, They brought 101 Varieties from 7 countries!!

There were many however last week I picked by two varieties, one was called Bombay (which I think is not the right label), which was fibery and not so juicy. and the other was a Thai variety, which wasn't labeled. It had the sign ripe Thai mangoes.

I planted the Thai mango, It was easy to open, the end was kind-off split already.

5 days later, Something popped out, fast forward 5 days later and I reached the stage where the previous one died, It's in semi-sunny conditions with a constant 34 C.

Today I went and bought the Thai Nam Doc Mai, which I read online was a premium mango, fiberless and smooth, and It was good.

I hit the jackpot, turns out that most of Nam Doc Mai's seedlings grow true to type because it's polyembryonic. Though it will be tricky to pick the right sprout....

(left to right)
Picture 1: Bombay
Picture 2: Thai ripe mango
Picture 3: Thai ripe mango sprout
Picture 4: Nam Doc Mai

[farah]

Mangos are £5 a box down our way might be worth trying again but we haven't got a blazing hot conservatory any more

[Nife180]

I re-potted my Mango plant, The pot it was in wasn't really deep. I was careful with the root this time. This seedling has made more progress than the one in the past.

I suspect the sun to be the reason it died, this one is in the shade of the fig tree, so It gets less intense rays and it's doing well. I re-potted it with potting soil and some slow release fertilizer.

It looks amazing, I'm addicted to growing mango seedlings now...

[rubmanhayat]

Salaam O Alaikum Everyone
I had been reading this post all day long from work and I decided I should share a little bit of my experience as well :) A friend of mine was somehow able to bring pakistani mango seeds and I planted them in August. The big one sprouted 2 weeks later and the smaller one took about 3 weeks. They both are Chausa. I just planted 3 more and they are Anwar Ratual from Pakistan. Let's see how they'll turn out.
It was really easy to open because by the time i got them they were already dried and just split them open. I just put it in the pot right away and left the nature to take it course. The big one is about 18" and the smaller one is about 9". The first one shooted up really fast but the smaller one was kinda retarded. At first with small leaves but they had burnt and later forced 3 branches. Now it had stop growing, just leaves are getting bigger. I have it in the window where it gets sun for about 5-6 hrs and rest is daylight. I was reading that everyone here was able to get it germinated and sprouted but after couple of weeks they die. Let's see if my seedling can survive the winter which seems to be coming early. It's september and the weather is turning cold already :(
My wife and mom tells me that I am really crazy trying to grow a mango plant in an apartment and in NY :) We don't get pakistani or Indian mangoes here so i was really determined to get some seeds from pakistan and grow them here. Not sure where I'll keep them once they grow bigger than my window size :/

[Kirsten]

Salaam rubmanhayat and welcome!

Your mangoes are BEAUTIFUL! I'm so jealous! Even if they don't produce mangoes in your climate, they are gorgeous houseplants :)

[rubmanhayat]

Thank You. I do hope to get some mangoes. How? : ) That's a big question to be answered and time will tell or else I'll have to break my bank and have a trip to Pakistan, which I haven't been for 20 years, and enjoy some mangoes.
I was wondering why everybody's mango are dying. Could it be possible that everyone is trying to germinate and sprout it outside the soil and later pot it which is also peeking out. I had mine like a 2 inches deep in the soil. It did take 2 weeks for it to shoot out. and the small one seems to be a polyembroynic cause there are two more shoots coming out but only one is peeking out a little. We haven't had any sun for a few days so it is kinda shy :) I found out the shoots when i was trying to move it a little on the left in the pot since both of them were too close and i was worried the roots would get tangled and then i'd be hard to move them in separate pots. Will surely update in a few days how the little shoot is doing :)
Till then Allah Hafiz

[Kirsten]

I was wondering why everybody's mango are dying. Could it be possible that everyone is trying to germinate and sprout it outside the soil and later pot it which is also peeking out.

Hmm I don't know - I used to use the paper towel method of sprouting them and then planting them, but they tended to mold quickly so I would just throw them in the pot, cover them with some dirt, and leave them to fend for themselves. Even then they would usually die after they got to the 3rd or 4th leaf :( I don't know why... I think I just have bad mango luck (and avocado, since the same thing always happens with that!)

Please keep us updated :)

[Tania]

Also, another cause could be the size of the pot. When the plant root cannot grow, the plant dies. I lost in this way, years ago a fir tree.

[rubmanhayat]

Salaam everyone :) Finally the Shy shoot decided to come out and get some sunlight. Had a few leaves but burnt them, only one survived. The existing plants don't seems to grow anymore. Ofcourse could be the season. I have been getting some sunlight though.
On the other hand, from the three seeds one of them didn't survive. My 10 months old son took it out and decided to put it in the other pot :) it was moulded so I threw it. One got sprouted and has 6 leaves. I have attached some pic. Hope everyones plants are doing fine. Allah Hafiz

[rubmanhayat]

Here is the update on my babies : )

[Riz]

hey..

they look healthy, the leaves are shiny and green :) they are stretching a bit due to not enough light, but thats too be expected.. you may wish too separate the two in the trough though at some point..

[rubmanhayat]

Since I have them in my widow they get about 5 hrs sunlight. I know it's not enough but can't do anything about it. Can't keep them outside since I live in an apartment. I am trying to get a light tube for them. The one that is stretching has three sorta branches since day 1. It looks like a mini tree :) I have separated the two by having an aluminium plate in the middle so that they don't tangle together. I will definitely put them in different pots once they grow bigger.

[Riz]

they look healthy though :GreenThumbs:

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks. I have a question though. Since the smaller one has multiple shoots could that be true type? Will I have to possibly graft both of them to get a better fruit if they reach that far? Also want to keep the same cultivar i.e chousa and anwar ratual and it is impossible to get a scion here in US of that type.

[Riz]

Hmm.. dunno, i have never tried it..

weird you dont get Pakistani mangos in usa though :down:

[rubmanhayat]

USA doesn't allow to import Pakistani mangoes :( I guess they don't find them up to their level in pesticide use. You guys are lucky ones and Canadians too. A friend of mine managad to bring mango seeds from Pakistan and I planted 'em hoping someday to get fruits from it and my family calls me Sheikh Chilli : \
The tip of the leaves are turning brown. Is there something I shouldn't be doing? I water it once or twice a week. I have them in my window and they get roughly about 5 hrs of sunlight. I will get some snapshots and will post them. Thanks

[Riz]

^ ill post you some Pakistani mango kernels next season inshallah :)

[rubmanhayat]

Thank You. I will appreciate that but I am afraid they might not get through customs. What type of cultivar do you get there in UK?

[Riz]

I am not sure what kind or variety but it says produce of Pakistan on the box :) I have sent lots of seeds and cuttings to the states over the years and everyone has received them with no issues from the customs, inshallah it will be ok they are just seeds ( kernels) and nothing else..

[rubmanhayat]

Inshallah I will be waiting for the season then : )

[rubmanhayat]

Here are some more pictures I took today. Some leaves have their tips burnt, i dunno why but like Riz said his has some burnt patches too. He's not worried so I think I shouldn't be either : ) There is some new growth on the bigger one and the smallest one has two new leaves. That's the one i tried putting in a different pot. At first i was really worried but then within a day or two i saw the leaves started turning green from red. I was very much relieved that i didn't kill it because it was my first time changing the pot and i had no idea what i was doing :)

[Riz]

they look really healthy.. the big one in the trough seems to be really taking off.. At one point you may have to re-pot them both in individual containers because the roots will be dragging along the bottom of the trough probably growing sideways as the trough is quite shallow and not deep enough.. They have grown really well with natural light, i am impressed :GreenThumbs:

[edibles]

omg i just saw one i planted back in spring outside and its still alive

[rubmanhayat]

edibles let's see some pictures :)

[edibles]

all in good time(when i get off my backside)

[rubmanhayat]

Hey Riz,
How u doing? I have noticed one thing in my mango plants. They get either odd numbers of leaves set or even number. One of my bigger plant has set of 4 leaves and the smaller one gets 3. I see your's have set of 5 leaves. Is it just my imagination or does it makes any sense? : )
Since my Dec 4 post the new growth on the bigger plant has gotten stronger and got a new set of leaves on the smaller plant which is also turned green now and are stronger. They are on their 3rd and 4th set of leaves. The smallest hasn't grown for about 3 weeks now. Some updated pictures attached.

[Riz]

hi hayat..

I don't think the amount of leaves are a issue though it may depend on the quality and length of light per day.. i must admit i am impressed you have done so well just with natural light, they are green and lush and growing really well too, inshallah if you can keep them this healthy till mid- may next year and then leave them outdoors all summer, they will be really impressive and great indoor/outdoor plants :) well that the plan for mine anyway.. great pics thanks for sharing :)

[rubmanhayat]

Hey,

Thank you Riz. This is the first plant that I have planted in my entire life. My mom and wife still laughs at me that i am trying to grow a mango tree in an apartment : ) My mom had a mango, jamun tree planted from seed in her house when she was in Pakistan and all sorts of vegetables with some murgian and a bakri : ) She finds it amusing when she sees me taking care of my mango tree and when i show her how everyone is doing here on this website.
I used to live in Bahrain and the weather there i think is just like pakistan. Humid and hot. I never thought of growing anything there but, oh well, it's never too late. Can't wait for this winter to be over and then i will have them out on the roof probably all summer. Oh yes, it will be all natural light all the way : ) lolz Let's hope for the best for everyone here. I will surely keep posting with updates. Allah Hafiz

[rubmanhayat]

Finally, there is some new growth :) After I added more soil, which was about two weeks from now, the smallest one has a set of new leaves. I see new shoots forcing from the bigger ones. May be in about a week or two. I was wondering when is the rite time to snip the top so that there will be multiple shoots pop'n? Should I cut the leaves that have their tips burnt or leave them alone till they fall on their own? I am not sure what happened there : (

[Riz]

they look really healthy... keep it up :)

[Riz]

hayat...


i wont be "topping" mine, i will just let it grow naturally.. your plants mashallah are so green and healthy :). I am impressed by the ones in the trough though,, looking great...

the leaves with the burnt tips can be left alone, as i have not snipped mine off.. so its all good i feel.....

you will be able to leave them outdoors sometime in mid may like i will be doing....

[rubmanhayat]

Thank You Riz :) I guess I'll take ur opinion as a suggestion and leave mine alone. I'll let nature deal with it.

[rubmanhayat]

New pics :)

[Riz]

very nice hayat..

leaves look shiny and lush :GreenThumbs:

[rubmanhayat]

Salaam Everyone

I think meri nazar lag gai meray mango plants go : ( They are very much in need of some help. Although they are having new growth which is all green and lush, I think they are suffering from anthracnose. Can someone please confirm this? I was reading online and it mentioned the I'll have to use some copper spray. It also mentioned home made spray i.e. baking soda spray. Will it be safe to use it? I have attached some pictures. The bigger one got some new growth and the leaves are almost starting to turn green. The smaller one had new growth which is all green now. I see that the first & second set of leaves have black spots and brown patches on the leaves edges. The new growth doesn't seemed to have been affected. I am not sure what to do about it :(

[Riz]

^ Hayat

the leaves do seem to have shrivelled.. best thing to do is to cut of the affected leaves, you are still getting new growth so you should be ok, the rest of the plants look healthy with nice long shiny leafs, so i would just cut off the leaves. looks like some individual leaves are infected and not all, so best to cut off them so they dont infect the healthy leaves....
if you can get hold of some tomato nutrients from the store you can add that to the water and feed the plant, that will perk it up a little..
and when you get a chance re-pot the ones in the troughs into there own pots...... ( use fresh soil/compost)

ps.. the soil seems rather dry, what is your watering regime ? The way i check is to scratch down the soil with my little finger 2 inches and if its moist i leave it for a few days, but if its dry give it a real good watering.....

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks for ur reply Riz. It gets good sun for about 5-6 hrs, therefore, the top of the soil gets a little dry. I make sure I give it a really good watering once a week. I will try to cut some of the infected leaves and see how it turns out. Am I right in saying it is infected by Anthracnose or is it time for the older leaves to fall off and they are getting all burn with black spots? I will go to home depot and get some tomato nutrient. Is there a kind I should look for? SO i guess it's not a good idea to spray anything on it, rite? Thanks

[~Obsidian~]

Salaam Everyone

I think meri nazar lag gai meray mango plants go : (

waAlaykum AsSalaam waRahmatullahi waBarakatuhu,

'I think I gave my plants the evil eye' - Translation for those of us who can't understand :)


Its a shame to hear about the plant problems, I was reading up abit on canker/anthracnose and if that is indeed what it is you should definitely cut off those leaves before it spreads, and burn them.

You should talk to someone in the home depot store about it (perhaps show them the pictures to confirm its presence) and they can advise you about the best course of action to take. I think you should treat them with something as it is usually caused by a fungus/bacteria and its better to be safe than sorry with the fragile mango plants, however please ensure that whatever you will use will be mango friendly - perhaps do a spot test on a small patch of leaf before treating it all (if you do treat it at all).

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks Obsidian. I will definitely take ur advice and try to treat it but like you said "...better to be safe than sorry with the fragile mango plants..." I will cut the leaves off, specially when they are the oldest ones. Meanwhile, I will check out home depot or the closet nursery. Thanks again.

[Riz]

If i had the same issues...

i would cut of the leaves from the stem and get rid of the soil too.. and use fox farm soil, we cant get this soil in Europe but you should be able to get it from the store, it has all the nutrients and the goodness your plants will need this way you wont need the tommie nutrients, they will bounce back, also buy some bigger pots and pot in fox farm soil :)

ps.. if you snip the leaf from the base of the stem, from what i have noticed and its happen to my plants within a couple of weeks another shooting tip will grow from there :)


http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xdpy/kb/fox-farm-info.html

here is a pic of the soil bag

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks Riz. I haven't seen this brand here in NY but I will try to see if I can find it. Should I get rid of the soil from within the roots as well? I know it's kinda dumb question, it's first time, u konw ;)
Ok guys as you can see I heavily pruned my mango plant hehehe : ) I hope it's going to be fine and it won't spread to rest of the plant.
I just cut them off a little away from the stem just to avoid any damage. I will try to snip off from the edge to see if more tips shoot out. It hurt me alot to cut all those leaves but i know it was for a good cause (trying to make myself feel better) :) it smell so good. just like mangoes in Pakistan : )

[Riz]

the soils that's stuck with the root-ball, you can leave that... just get a small quality bag of compost /soil....

[~Obsidian~]

Thanks Riz. I haven't seen this brand here in NY but I will try to see if I can find it. Should I get rid of the soil from within the roots as well? I know it's kinda dumb question, it's first time, u konw ;)
Ok guys as you can see I heavily pruned my mango plant hehehe : ) I hope it's going to be fine and it won't spread to rest of the plant.
I just cut them off a little away from the stem just to avoid any damage. I will try to snip off from the edge to see if more tips shoot out. It hurt me alot to cut all those leaves but i know it was for a good cause (trying to make myself feel better) :) it smell so good. just like mangoes in Pakistan : )

They don't look as destitute as I thought they would :p masha'Allah, yep it deffo was for a good cause!!

Man now you have me wanting a pakistani mango...

[rubmanhayat]

Man now you have me wanting a pakistani mango...

hehehe : ) well I guess you could wait for few months till summer then you can have 'em. For me :( I don't know...may be around 10 more years. We don't get them here in NY. Last time I had 'em was when i went to Canada like 5 years ago. It's been 20 years I haven't been to Pakistan. SO dying to have the real thing lolz : )

[~Obsidian~]

Ten years?! Ouch! My condolences! :eek:

[rubmanhayat]

I have cut almost all the leaves. The new ones are getting black tips again :( I am planning to put these in separate pots next weekend. The smallest one gets a new leaf and the older one shrivels, not sure why :(

[Riz]

If you replant them in bigger containers, i think you will see a big difference, they will grow more rapidly, IMO,the plants are crying out to be planted in bigger containers, They shrivel because there is no more room for them to grow, so they cant reach there potential growth and they shrivel up and die.....

[rubmanhayat]

I bout a huge bag of Miracle Grow(Potting Mix) and separated my mango plants in 4 gallon container. We get cooking oil in these containers :) I still have to plant my smaller mango in a bigger pot. Probably will do it next week. My back hurts now :(
I bought a pack of tomato seeds and my brother got all excited and he bought cucumber and cantaloupe seeds. Not sure where we'll plant them though :D

[Riz]

now thats more like it hayat :)

[rubmanhayat]

I pruned a little roots(may be a little more than little :shy:) while moving 'em in bigger pots. I hope didn't harm them and it's gonna be in 70's this week, so I guess they'll be fine. Thanks : )

[~Obsidian~]

They look good rubman :GreenThumbs: masha'Allah

Cucumber plants need more height than width in my experience, and tomato plants just need a pot, not much! Go nuts :D

[rubmanhayat]

Some new growth on my smallest mango :)

[rubmanhayat]

Sorry about the focus. My kid was angry and he pressed the lense hard. It's not focusing anymore :( Anyways...my mangoes :) It wasn't growing straight up so I took my wife's painting brush and tied to the stem.

[Riz]

good work hayat..

they are looking real good :)

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks Riz. Too many gnats bothering in the house. Planning to get all the plants out on the roof this weekend if the weather is good.

[rubmanhayat]

...and my mango plants :D

[Riz]

they are growing really well :)

[rubmanhayat]

The biggest one is almost 3' now. I think they can do better if they are outside but doing good considering the amount of light they get and space they are in now. I am waiting for a scion from pakistan to graft the biggest one. Let's see how it goes :)

[preanka_j]

wow u guys have it great!!! i tried extracting a mango seed n damaged one, it also had a small root growing i wanted to know if it will still survive? it got cut abt 2" but not deep... what do u suggest?

[rubmanhayat]

Is the root damaged? I'd say you can try to keep in wrapped in a paper towel and put it in a plastic bag or tupperware. Try to keep it moist and not too wet/soggy. Take it out of the bag once in a while so that it gets some fresh air and doesn't get mouldy. I'd look for if the root is growing and if there is any sign of shoot. Rest is all mother nature :)

Also check out Riz's thread on "germinating a mango seed...myguide"

http://www.muslimgrower.com/discussionforum/showthread.php?t=7

Hope you get your mango seed germinated. What variety is it?

[rubmanhayat]

Ramadan Mubarak to everyone :) Hope this month will be blessed & full of happiness for all. Yay!!! I got like about a dozen 'n half scions of Chausa and AnwarRatol from Pakistan yesterday :) Will post pictures of 'em when I get home. Now the big question is grafting them. I am also thinking of using some rooting powder and stick them in the soil hoping they will start growing. What do ppl think about it? Unfortunately, custom officer took out all 12 kilos of mangoes and kept them for themselves:(

[Riz]

i am sure i saw an interview of hilary clinton in Pakistan and she said that pakistan will be exporting there mangos to USA !!!

cant wait to see the pics of the scions, how were they packed, in a plastic bag !???

[rubmanhayat]

Well, they were rolled in a wet cloth and then wrapped in plastic bag. Now I have 'em in a cup soaked in water now. Something is going wrong with one of my mango plants. The leaves are turning orangish brown. Its starts with few spots and then covers the entire leaf. All the leaves are turning brown the same way all of a sudden. I water them amm... I'd say biweekly. The weather was hot and dry for a few days. Today is cloudy and humid. What should I spray on 'em?

[rubmanhayat]

These are the scions someone brought for me from Pakistan. I hope they'll grow. I used rooting powder and put some in the soil. I left a few just in that cup to see if they'd grow in water. Grafted some on both the plant but one is looking really awful. Riz, when you get some cuttings do you just stick them in the soil? Do they dry out or stay all green and then new shoot would start appearing? The rose stem that I had in the water starting getting leaves but as soon as i put it in the soil it dried out and never recovered. So I am not sure how will this go.

[Riz]

what technique did you use in grafting the scion on to the stem of the mango plant, did you cut the scion at angle, did you cut the stem of the mother plant to make both fit in !?

wow you have lots of them.. when you stick them in the soil its best to put a plastic bag over them to keep the humidity in, but keep watering the soil too so when the roots develop they can sense moisture underneath them.. maybe u can spray the scion with water too every other day, keep them in warm place, room temps should suffice..

what about the light source, you gonna leave them at the windowsill with the rest of the plants !?

[rubmanhayat]

I did a side-veneer grafting technique. Yes, I cut the scion at an angle, exposed the top part of the stem of the mother plant the same size as of the scion and tape it up really good. Gave it a good watering and put a little more of fresh soil on the top. The scion is starting to dry out from the top so I am not sure if it would survive. Should they start drying? I will start spraying it with water to keep it moist. Yes I will keep them in my windowsill but away from direct sun 'coz the temp here is in 90's. Did you see those leaves burning? Why do you think that's happening. It's all the leaves. Some have this burning marks and some has black spots. Could this be anthracnose? Will keep posting. Thanks

[Riz]

very well done with the grafting hayat....

I hope it works out even if you manage to graft ONE scion it will be a job well done...

i am not sure about the burning, do you just feed it with water ?? I think you should try giving it some tomato nutrients with water once a week that might help it a little, looks like it has a nutrient deficiency to me.

The last pic of the mango is looking really good :)

ya the scion does dry out a bit and new shoots develop after a while. I guess grafting is a bit like when the doctors reattach fingers to a hand, you know sometimes the body rejects it and sometimes it accepts it..

look after the rest of the mango cuttings though IA they will develop too....

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks Riz. I have grafted three and hoping for atleast one too work. That'd be a great accomplishment for someone living in an apartment :) and doing it for the first time. I am just giving them water for now. I will try to feed it with some tomato nutrients and see if there be any difference. I have some egg shells saved also. I guess i will grind them and mix it in the soil. The last mango picture is the smallest plant of all. It is taking its sweet time to grow or may be because it is the smallest and sweetest variety of Pakistani mangoes. I think i'll repot this one and see if it grows any faster.

[rubmanhayat]

Not so good news. My scions have dried up :( and for some reason all the leaves fell off from my biggest mango plant. Not so sure why. They fell off just by touching 'em. It looks so sad now. I had covered the pot with plastic and by next day the scions got moulded. I took the plastic off the pot and left it by the window. This one was a disaster.

On the other hand, my father brought some mexican mangoes. That's all we get here. My brother cut one up and found out the seed was open and root already sticking out. So I put this one in the soil as well.

[rubmanhayat]

...and the second one in the box as well :) It's almost about to sprout.

[Riz]

Not so good news. My scions have dried up :( and for some reason all the leaves fell off from my biggest mango plant. Not so sure why. They fell off just by touching 'em. It looks so sad now. I had covered the pot with plastic and by next day the scions got moulded. I took the plastic off the pot and left it by the window. This one was a disaster.



The cuttings you got given look like as if they are from a well established tree judging by the thickness of the stems in your pics, your mango plant was struggling anyway with burnt leaves so i think the grafting was a bridge too far for it and that's why it has unfortunately failed, if you see your mango plant stem is not even as thick as th scions that you have..

usually scions are grafted on to well established plants or trees.. You still have other scions and i hope they root for you inshallah, when they do you can carry on growing them the same way you have with your mango pants, So in conclusion i think your mango plant was too weak to handle the grafting on its stem...


I have never seen a mango kernel germinate whilst still inside the mango,, how kewl :)

[rubmanhayat]

Yup it's a learning curve. The one that has burning leaves failed which I understand because it was struggling. What about the other one? It was all green and healthy :( Do you think it was stunned and all the leaves fell. Oh well, will try it again :)

[Riz]

i found this article with pics on diff techniques.. i was wondering hayat if your mango plant just didn't have enough energy to cope with a scion being grafted on, because its still small plant,, usually grafting is done on well established tress/bushes etc.....




grafting and Budding Fruit Trees


Methods of Grafting


The Whip Graft
The whip graft is used mostly on young apple and pear trees when the branches are relatively small (not more than ½-inch in diameter) and the understock is about the same diameter as the scion of the new cultivar.
Cut—Cut off a branch of the understock, leaving a stub at least a foot long. Make a straight, slanting cut about 1½ inches long on both the scion and the stock (see A and C in Figure 1). Make the cut straight and even—one stroke with a sharp knife will do it. For the tongue, make a straight draw cut (not split), beginning near the top and cutting about the full length of the level (B and D).
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F05.GIF Figure 1. The whip graft is usually used for grafting root stocks and scions but can also be used for grafting small branches.
Union—Match the two parts together (E). Unless the scion and stock are the same size, be sure the scion is in contact with the inner bark on one side. If the toe of either the stock or scion extend beyond the heel of the other, cut if off evenly.
Tying and covering—Bind tightly with tape, then carefully cover the union and binding material with grafting compound.
This type of graft is difficult for the beginner but is used extensively by experienced operators. It lends itself to the tape method of binding. Tape serves to seal the wound and bind the parts together.
While other types of grafts depend on the bark slipping well, the whip graft does not. In fact, it is best if you make this graft before the narrow tongue of wood.
Aftercare—Remove wrapping as soon as the scion has started to grow to prevent girdling of the tree.
The Cleft Graft
The cleft graft is used for topworking older established apple and pear trees, either on the trunk of a small tree or on the side branches of a larger tree. It is best adapted to branches 1 to 2 inches in diameter. The grafts are made within 2 to 3 feet of the trunk or main branches and preferably not more than 4 to 6 feet from ground, or new top of tree will be too high.
Cuts—Select a place free from knots and cut off the stock with a saw. Cut the cleft (avoid splitting if possible) with a grafting chisel, large knife or hatchet. After a few trials you will learn the proper depth of cleft. In horizontal branches, the cleft should be sidewise, that is, not perpendicular, to reduce breakage from birds and storms.
With a sloping cut about ¼ inch above the upper bud, cut the scions to include three buds, and to a blunt wedge about 1½ inches in length with one side slightly thicker than the other (see A and B in Figure 2). If the scion wedge is cut to a sharp point there is danger of the bark peeling. Also a sharp scion wedge' will not fit the cleft as well (C).
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F06.GIF Figure 2. The cleft graft is the one to use on large branches.
Union—Open the cleft slightly with a grafting tool or screw driver. Insert a scion on each side, with the inner bark of stock and scion in contact. Have the thick side of the scion outward (B).
Keep in mind that the bark of the larger stock is thicker than the scion bark, so the scion should not be flush with the stock. A very slight tilt will assure a contact, at least where the cambium layers cross (D).
Tying and covering—There is no need to tie, unless the stock is small and does not bind well. Cover the unions with grafting compound and be sure the cleft is covered its full length (E).
Aftercare—Scions that are growing vigorously will need attention to prevent breakage by birds, ice and storms. Either tie the scion to a supporting brace (see B in Figure 3), or pinch back the tips before growth becomes excessive. For additional support, circle all the shoots from one stub with twine (A).
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F07.GIF

[Riz]

Figure 3. In this example of a cleft graft, three stages in the growth of a branch from a scion are shown. During the first season, let all scions and the shoot growth from below the graft grow undisturbed. However, do not permit this understock growth to shade out the scions. The second spring, select the most suitable scion as the permanent branch and consider the others as spares. Leave the spare scions on to assist in healing over the stub, but cut them back to a few buds on each (see B). The third spring, severely cut back the spare scions again. In the fourth season, or when crowding is noted, cut off all of the spare scions as seems necessary (C).
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F08.GIF
Figure 4. Trouble ahead in the next storm. Don't let two leaders compete.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F09.GIF The Modified Cleft Graft Instead of trying to master the whip graft or side graft, use a simple kind of cleft graft on small understock. Stock (see B) about the same size as the scion (A) may be split and a wedge-shaped scion inserted.
Should the stock be larger than the scion, be careful to set the scion to one side instead of on center (C). In this way the cambium of stock and scion will make contact.
Wrap this graft union (D) carefully with a good grade of rubber tape. As the graft grows the tape stretches and eventually deteriorates.
Very large trees are generally poor subjects for cleft grafting, so when grafting their large branches, a slightly different method is ordinarily used.
Carefully saw off the branch undercutting it first to avoid tearing the bark. You may need to recut the stub to get it smooth. Saw the branch to receive the scions, instead of splitting it.
Make two saw cuts about 4 inches deep at right angles to each other across the end of the stub, making a + shape. Then fit the scions into the four places made by these cuts.

The Side Graft

Although the side graft is adapted to a wide range of branch sizes (¼ to ¾ inch diameter), its use is generally restricted to branches that are too large for the whip graft yet not large enough for the cleft graft. As the name suggests, the scion is inserted into the side of the stock, which is generally larger in diameter than the scion.
Cuts—Select a smooth place on the understock branch at least a foot from the trunk. Make a slanting cut at a narrow angle almost to the pith (core of the branch) (see B in Figure 5). Cut the scion to a short, sharp wedge (about 1 inch) with one side thicker than the other (see A).
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F10.GIFFigure 5. In the side graft, the cut goes across the grain to reduce splitting.
Union—Bend the branch slightly to open the cut. Press the scion in so the cambium layers of the stock and scion meet at one side (C).
Tying and covering—Tying is unnecessary if the stock binds well, but you may have to tie small materials if the scion is not held firmly. Cut surfaces should then be covered with grafting compound (E).
Aftercare—In about two weeks, cut off the stock above the union (D) using sharp shears in order to avoid disturbing the scion. Then cover the cut surface with grafting compound (D).
If the graft has been tied, cut the binding shortly after growth starts; this will prevent girdling. In the first season, you may allow some shoot growth from below the graft, but do not permit this growth to shade the scion growth. After the first season, all growth should be cut off, except that of the graft.
Inspect grafts during the growing season to guard against faulty covering or binding. If shoots are attacked by fire blight, cut them 6 inches below the visible symptoms.

Budding

Budding is a form of grafting in which a single bud is used as the scion rather than a section of stem. It is the most commonly used method for fruit tree production in the nursery, but can also be used for topworking plum, cherry, apricots, and peach as well as young apple and pear trees. (Cherry, plum, apricot, and peach are not easily cleft grafted or whip grafted.)
Budding is done in the summer, usually from July 15 to August 15, when the bark of the stock slips easily and when there are well-grown buds. The first step is to cut bud sticks of the desired cultivar from strong shoots of the present season's growth (see A in Figure 6). These buds should be mature, as indicated by a slightly brownish color.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F11.GIFFigure 6. In budding, a single bud does the work of a scion.
Clip off the leaves as soon as the bud sticks are cut, leaving about ½ inch of the leafstalk for a handle. Discard the soft tips of the bud sticks. Wrap the bud sticks in moist burlap, moss or paper to prevent drying out.
Branches from the size of a lead pencil up to ½-inch diameter may be worked by this method. The bark of larger branches is too thick for satisfactory budding.
Cut—On the branches of the stock, about 15 inches or more from the trunk, make a T cut just across the bark (C). Then, with a knife blade or bark separator, lift the corners and carefully loosen the bark.

[Riz]

Bud With Wood Attached

Cut a bud from bud stick (A) which includes a thin piece of attached wood (B). Start the bud under the flaps of bark and lead it down by the handle (see D and E in figure 6).
Tying—Use rubber strips, electrician's tape, or adhesive tape to tie the bud. Wrap and tie tightly, but be sure you do not cover the bud (see F in Figure 6).
Aftercare—Cut the tie before it binds too tightly—that is, in two or three weeks. Cut on the side away from the bud. Rubber strips need not be cut. The bud should remain dormant until the following spring. Cut off the stock above the bud as soon as the bud starts growing.
Do not permit any shoot growth.
After the second year, remove all extra growth from the stock, that is, keep only the bud grafted shoots. When two or more buds grow, all can be used, but one is usually enough to produce a new branch.

Bud With Wood Removed

As illustrated in Figure 7, cut from A well under the bud to B. Remove the knife and rock the blade just through the bark at B. Grasp the bark between your thumb and finger and pinch the bark with attached bud (C) free from the wood (D). If the bud stick is fresh and in good condition, you will be successful after a few tries.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F12.GIF
Figure 7. Bud with wood removed. Buds which have the sliver of wood removed have a complete cambium surface exposed to meet the cambium of the stock and sometimes result in better growth, but they are not rigid enough to handle easily. Buds with wood attached are easier to handle and usually give good results. (See above, for "Tying" and "Aftercare" of the bud.)

The Bridge Graft
When the bark of a tree is removed (girdled) completely around the trunk, that part of the tree above the damaged area will die. Even though completely girdled, some trees may leaf out and remain alive for one season, but both the top and root will die the second year unless shoots have been produced below the girdled areas.
Girdling can be caused by rodents, which damage many fruit trees each year. Occasionally a tree may only appear to be girdled if the gnawing has not gone through the bark to the wood. Sometimes the girdled area extends less than halfway around the trunk, and such injuries are protected from drying out, new bark will grow from the cambium. As soon as you discover an injury, cover it with an asphalt grafting compound.
Rabbit damage is usually some distance above the ground or snow line. These animals cut off twigs and pull off bark in shreds. Mice work near the ground out of sight under grass or snow. They usually begin at one spot and enlarge it. Pocket gophers gnaw off roots below the ground. Trees hurt in this way often tip over and cannot be repaired.
The following supplies are necessary to repair girdled trees:


A sharp knife, such as a good jackknife
Small nails for tacking scions to the tree
A light hammer
A nail set
A saw for trimming old thick bark
A shovel or trowel if damage is below the ground
A heavy scrub brush for cleaning excavated bark
Dormant or fresh cut scions for bridges
Asphalt grafting compound or asphalt wound dressing

Scion—Scions for apple trees may be taken from any hardy cultivar of apple or crab apple. Pear scions must be used for pear, plum for plums, and so on. Old trees rarely produce good scion wood unless they were pruned well the previous year. If 1-year old-wood is not available, 2-year wood may be used. If you can anticipate the need, you should cut the scions before any growth begins. Keep them in moist and cool storage. You may cut the scions, fresh as needed, if you bridge promptly before shoot growth begins.
Small Tree—Apple and pear trees under 2 inches in diameter are too small to bridge. The swaying of such small trunks by strong winds will dislodge the scions. If the tree is under 1 inch, it is best to saw it off just below the girdle, then cover the cut with asphalt wound dressing or grafting compound. Shoots of the same cultivar probably will grow out from above the place the tree originally had been grafted. Trees between 1 and 2 inches can best be treated by cutting or sawing them off below the injury in the spring and placing scions in the stubs by cleft grafting. Cherry and plum trees usually are not bridge grafted successfully. If they are only 2 or 3 years old, cut off below the injury and a new shoot will grow out from above the place where the tree originally had been grafted.
How To Bridge Graft—Bridge grafting is done in the spring after growth has started when the bark of the tree to be repaired will lift readily (slip) from the wood—usually between April 15 and May 15.
The first step is to trim the bark of the girdled trees both above and below the girdle. Cut back damaged or frayed bark an inch or so to sound bark. The edges should be clean and smooth. Scrape down old rough bark to live bark.
Two methods of setting scions are used: (1) the L-cut, best for trees with thin bark, and (2) inlay, for trees with thick bark.
To make the L-cut, start at the edge of live bark and cut a slit about 2 inches long in the bark below the girdle (left side in Figure 8). Lift the edges with a dull smooth tool. Such a tool can readily be shaped from hardwood or a piece of plastic. The rat tail of a comb is good for this purpose. Do not use the scion to lift the bark.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F13.GIFFigure 8. Two methods of bridge grafting (L-cut on the left and inlay on the right) are shown. The scion on the left is inserted under the bark at each end; the scion on the right is laid in a groove at each end.
Prepare a second slit at the upper side of the girdle directly above the first.
Shape the scion on the lower end and measure against the girdle to determine the length of the scion. Shape the upper end of the scion to a definite taper with a longer flat surface next to the tree. Slip the ends under the bark, nail them in position and nail down the flaps of bark. In nailing either scion or bark, use care to avoid crushing the bark. A nail set will help to avoid injury to the bark.
The inlay method (right side of Figure 8) is the best bridge grafting technique. In fact, it is a necessity for a short span. Select a curved scion to make an inlay bridge. Measure the distance to be spanned and make the scion long enough to extend 1½ to 2 inches beyond the girdle at each end. Cut a straight, smooth face on each end.
Place a nail in each end. Tack this lightly to the tree bark to mark the place. Mark around each end on the bark to get the exact size of the scion. Remove the scion, cut to the wood on the marks, and lift out the piece of bark. Then fit the scion in the channels in the bark and nail carefully. One nail is usually enough.
In either grafting method, place a scion every 1½ to 2 inches around the tree.
There is a third method to insert scions in bridge grafting, as shown in Figure 9. Little or no trimming is done to the bark that borders the damaged area. This is a little less tidy and it requires somewhat longer scions, but it is quicker and equally effective.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/images/0532_F14.GIFFigure 9. A quick way to bridge girdled trees.
Scions are cut and inserted essentially the same as in Figure 8.
Covering and care—When all the scions are in place, the graft unions should be covered with grafting compound. Note that the entire girdled surface should be covered and more than one coat may be necessary.
In bridge grafting, after the scions begin to grow, it is important that all shoots or leafy growth be cut or rubbed off the scions.

[Riz]

Some Reasons Why a Graft Fails



The scion and stock were incompatible; apple will not unite with plum, for example.
The grafting was done at the wrong season.
The understock was not healthy.
The scions were not vigorous.
The scions were dry or injured by cold temperatures.
The scions were not dormant.
The cambium of scion and stock were not meeting properly.
The scions were upside down.
The graft was improperly covered with grafting compound.
The scions were displaced by wind, birds or storms.
The graft was shaded too much after growth began.
New growth was damaged by aphids or other insects.
New growth was killed by fire blight.
The union girdled because the bindings or label were not released in time.


What If Grafts Fail?

One hundred percent success in grafting is rare. The failure of one or two scions is not serious, since usually more scions are inserted than are necessary for the completed tree. On branches where the scions fail let the shoots grow. These can be budded the same summer or grafted later. Some shoot growth is needed for regrafting, but don't let them become so dense that they crowd the scions.

[noora]

thank you
Riz

[rubmanhayat]

Thanks Riz. I think I'll wait now till my plants gets healthier and then think of grafting again. If not then I'll just let them grow the way they are. I am hoping one of them is true to type 'coz it has two shoots from the seed.

[noora]

igrowThis mango

is it good?

what i can do with it

now i put it near the window

[Riz]

salaam noora

that is looking very good, YES noora put it in a place were you get the most light and inshallah it will grow really well for you :)

[noora]

thank you
Riz

[rubmanhayat]

Mashallah this is great. Like Riz said you can put it in the window till it grows a bit more and then probably outside if you have open yard. The weather is perfect there for this one. What variety is it?

[noora]

thank you rubmanhayat

inshallah I will put it out door

put can I keep It in door

What variety is it?

I do not now rubmanhayat

only I bought it

thank you

[rubmanhayat]

Indoor would be ok if it's getting good amount of sunlight. It kind of gets tilted to the side where the sunlight is coming from and you'll have to keep turning the pot around. It's ok if you don't know what variety it is. I feel like I have a craze about Pakistani mangoes because we don't get here in US. That's why I ask everyone and get a feeling of happiness if they are growing Pakistani mangoes :) ...and I know you get Pakistani mangoes in Saudi Arabia hehehe :)

[noora]

thank you rubmanhayat

I will try to keep it near the window

but why you do not grow it??

[rubmanhayat]

noora I have 3 of them. If you go back a few posts in this thread you'll see it. They are not doing well at all I will post new pictures and that will explain why :\

[noora]

rubmanhayat
ok
now
Iunderstand

Ilike to see new pictures

thank you

[rubmanhayat]

Huhhh :( there are no more leaves on both the plants. I had tried to graft a scion which I got from Pakistan and this is what happened to it. Now I know why the leaves were turning brown Riz. All the supply was cut off and the stem was drying from inside out. I have them on the roof now and hoping it would start growing again. If the bigger stem dies out will the other shoot coming out from the same stem start growing? If not then have to get some seeds from Pakistan again. Smallest one which is a survivor :) and the rest are probably counting their last days :(

By the way Riz :D

^ ill post you some Pakistani mango kernels next season inshallah :)

[Riz]

i wanted to send you some kernels but remember you asked me what strain of mangos they would be, i simply dint know, it doesn't say so on the box of mangos i get from the Pakistani shop in my area.. but fear not, pakistani mangos will be introduced to USA very soon, I heard hilary clinton talk about it when she was in pakistan so you will be getting some at your stores soon :)

well you could cut away the dead area and try to root the top stem which looks green and hopefully the stem below the dead area will grow too......

you could get some strong clear plastic and tack it around that frame and put your mango plants and the rest of the plants inside the frame, they would love that, maybe leave one side open to let bees and insects pollinate the tommies and the cukes eventually :)

[rubmanhayat]

This is all that's left :( I still have one Pakistani left. The other two are kent variety.

[Foreveryoung]

This is all that's left :( I still have one Pakistani left. The other two are kent variety.

mA really nice :) Please update us about your mango tree Hayat

and Azhar Wonderful thread brother. It was really treat going through this Mango thread :)

Here's my Pakistani Mango

Type = Anwar Ratol ...
Age = 24 years old

This one turned yellow on the tree and fell ... Really very sweet.

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/AyeshaUK2009/Gardening/DSCN8643-1.jpg


My dadi jee eat it this way =)

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/AyeshaUK2009/Gardening/DSCN8632.jpg

[rubmanhayat]

Here is my 2 mango plants. Just getting some new growth. Thinking of repotting these but may be coming spring. Waiting for some chausa mango seeds coming from Canada. Let's see if customs let them go through. This year some mangoes came but politians ki nazar hogai (Politians put their hands on all of them) :(

[pomegranate]

your mango trees look fantastic, the tallest my pakistani mango plant got was 10cm:D then came winter and the plant died:down:

i want to try and grow "Rapoza mango" this year, they are the best and the costliest lol,
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ON2k1XW6nX0/Th398_snOJI/AAAAAAAAAmM/QX_mGcOp9ek/s1600/mango.jpg

[rubmanhayat]

Yayyyyy :) Finally my wait is over :happy1: I received 4 mango seeds today in mail from Canada. These are chausa variety and my journey of growing these starts again. I have learnt from my experience and hope this time they'll go a long way Inshallah :) very excited. I'll split these open and just put them in regular potting soil.

[Foreveryoung]

i want to try and grow "Rapoza mango" this year, they are the best and the costliest lol,



This is interesting. Never heard about this type of mango.

@ Hayat= Good Luck with ur Mango Adventure and keep us updating on every step. Its interesting to know tht u have to split the hard mango seed first. Never knew tht :unsure:

[rubmanhayat]

...Its interesting to know tht u have to split the hard mango seed first. Never knew tht :unsure:

Ammmm... you don't really have to split the husk. We can put the pit in the soil just like that. I think all it does is probably speed up the germinating process. I looked at Riz's steps in how to germinate a mango seed and just went with it except that I didn't put it in a bag, just straight in the soil :) Let's see how these ones go. I just found out today that someone here has Pakistani mango and he's selling a 3 kg box for $60 :( May be I'll and check 'em out.

[rubmanhayat]

Pakistani mangoes made to USA but they were mad expensive. Check out the first pic. Got 'em for $50. Decided to go to Canada and have some more. Only for $13. They were ammmm... I'd say... ok. Weren't really impressed with the quality/taste. Probably 'coz they were harvested wayyy to early for commercial shipping.

[Riz]

$50 for 9 mangos??

[rubmanhayat]

$50 for only 6 mangoes :( Pix on rite is from Canada. They expensive there too but not as expensive as here. only 4 mangoes for $13.

[zishaan]

This is a picture of my Indian Kesar, the one and only mango I have ever germinated. Its about 4 months old now.

Also, how come mangoes are so expensive in America?!!:eek:

[rubmanhayat]

Zishaan, it's expensive because this year was the first year USA allowed import of Pakistani mangoes and the expense adds up. Probably in a few years price will come down. The four kernals I started went bad. I will start some again now that I have too many of them :)

[zishaan]

Ahh. That makes more sense now. InshAllah the price will go down. I've suffered similarly cos of export costs (although not to that extent - a box of 12 is about £10 where I live). And to top it off, I have to hear my Mamas and cousins in India talk about entire buckets of mangoes that they ingest daily during the early summer:mad:

[Riz]

any updates from anyone !!?

[rubmanhayat]

No updates man. Just that the kernal I started to germinate went all mouldy and didn't work out. I think I'll try again since I have a few from my trip to canada. How's yours mango plant doing/

[Riz]

its ok, its indoors now against a windowsill, Hmm wasn't a good season in UK to be honest with ya, sun hardly came out lol

[zishaan]

I've got these little flies living on my mango and there's millions of them. Does anyone know how to get rid of them cos I wanna bring the plant in from my conservatory over the winter since it gets freezing in there and i'd rather not have these flies taking over my house?

[Hermes]

Zishaan,
They may be a type known as SCIARID, or FUNGUS GNATS.

Check out this link:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/do-your-potted-plants-have-fungus-gnats-0

I had some in my mango plant pot during the summer but the amount has died down since winter.

Provado might be the answer else try the Nematode method as per the link.

[Hermes]

its ok, its indoors now against a windowsill, Hmm wasn't a good season in UK to be honest with ya, sun hardly came out lol

Riz,
It was an exceptionally warm autumn this year. There was sunny days in mid November.
My mango tree that I sprouted in the late spring this year is doing well. I'm very much hoping to get it through the winter (for once!)

I've got a heating coil that is just keeping the temperature above 9 degrees C at the worst and up to 29C at best overnight.

It appears to have stopped growing (About 16in high) so have stopped watering it until spring... I nipped out the leader shoot to let it branch when it starts growing again.

I'm not using any artificial light as I can't afford it but the window is South Facing and on the third floor (Ha - just shy of the tops of some trees so since no leaves all the winter sun is coming through!!)

If I can work out how to post pictures then I will do so (from an iPhone?)

[zishaan]

Thanks for the reply Hermes. I think you were right, they're fungus gnats. Luckily, the ones in my mango have started decreasing in number too, now that winter's hit. But I had to clear up thousands of the ones that had died in the conservatory.

I'm a bit reluctant to use commercial insecticides so I'm trying to find a natural one. I've heard that Neem oil works, but its too expensive to justify trying it. Have you (or anyone else) heard of any others?

[Hermes]

I think the Nematode route is the better way. They are natural preditors for the Fungus Gnat worms. It seems you had a very bad infestation. You could change the soil - microwave the new soil a bowlful at a time for about 2 minutes to kill off bacteria and infestations (It won't harm the nutrients, though).

But just do a google search to get your best answers.