Growing a Date Palm from seed

[tahir_phoenix]

Salaam everyone - I thought I would add to the list of exotic fruits/plants keen gardeners have been talking about on this really helpful website!

It's easier than you think (apart from cleaning the seed!) but the key word I will keep using is PATIENCE! :)

1. First thing I did was to buy a packet of dates from the supermarket - there are usually 2 types, deglet nour (smaller more chewy) and the Medjool (much larger and meatier) - choose the smaller ones as I've struggled to germinate the larger ones! With Ramadan coming up in Sept there should be plenty in the supermarkets.

2. Eat the dates and put the seeds into a plastic tub (or anything with a lid) of tepid water for 3 days to soften the fruit / flesh off the seeds to prevent them from going mouldy when they are sown in compost.
If any of the seeds float don't use them because they might not germinate.
Leave the tub on a window sill preferably with plenty of light and sun (see picture B) .
Change the water every 24hrs but before changing it cover the tub and give it a good shake for a few minutes - this helps loosen off more sugary flesh off the seeds.

3. After 3 days put the dates on a warm, light windowsill to dry off - 24hrs is more than enough.

4. Next the tricky bit, Scarification or cleaning - the seeds that i've successfully germinated were the ones that I scarified or cleaned thoroughly.
The method is simple, take a small sharp knife or a scalpel (I prefer scalpel becoz its easier to handle) and scrape off the medium brown outer layer (endocarp). Under this layer should be a whiter / lighter coloured layer (see picture C - cleaned dates on the right hand side). This will help water penetrate the bony shell of the seed which in turn will help it swell up hopefully speeding up germination by a week or two. Now I did say this was very tricky becoz of the size of the seed and having to use a sharp object between your fingers so be careful and patient! Also be careful not to cut into the seed as this will damage it.
Other safer ways are to rub fine sandpaper on the seeds or to place them in a lidded tub with small gravel / stones (see picture D) and shake it for a few minutes but neither is as effective.

5. Once cleaned place the seeds into a decent sized pot (at least 5-6 inches deep) with a 50 / 50 mixture of compost and sharp sand or any mixture with good drainage as palm roots tend to rot quickly if too much water is present. The seeds need to be planted no more than a couple of centimetres from the soil top.

6. Add a small amount of water and place in a warm spot such as sunny windowsill or conservatory and water once a week or when the soil is drying out but don't be tempted to over water them.
I've read many different ways (on the net) of trying to germinate palm seeds from placing in a tub in vermiculite (light sterile material) to wrapping in damp tissue and placing in the airing cupboard or a sealed bag - none of these worked for me - doesn't mean you shouldn't try them! Also some people say you need really high temperatures to germinate palm seeds - this isn't true - my seeds germinated at normal room temperature.

The compost / sand method is the only method that worked for me - maybe becoz I live in the colder north!

7. The long wait - I almost gave up! The first seeds germinated in about 3-4 weeks so PATIENCE is a must. There will be a small green leaf (see picture F) that takes about 2-3 weeks to become longer like a blade of grass (see picture). At this stage you should repot as the main root of the seedling will grow quite long (see picture) and a deeper pot will help to maintain strong growth. I waited too long to repot my seedlings and you can see how the main root has curled up!

Palm seedlings grow very slowly so don't expect rapid growth and only water when the soil is almost dry.

I've not put my seedlings outside yet - too scared! Maybe next summer I'll put them outside with the larger palms I have in the garden :)

I've now started trying different palm types such as the difficult windmill palm and with great success - the first seedling has come out last week (about 5 weeks to germinate - see picture G). Next I will retry the Medjool but the main problem I've had is the seeds going mouldy!

I'm waiting for the 2nd leaves to come out and I'll post more photos in the next few months as the palms grow bigger!

[Riz]

Tahir..

This is an excellent tutorial.. Did you ever consider a heated propagator to germinate them ( i dont have one myself at the moment) you have done really well with this variety i often wondered how best to germinate them and now i know,, its ramadhan soon aswell so i am sure i will have lots of date seeds at my disposal, i shall try some using your method...

[tahir_phoenix]

Thanks for the feedback Riz - and yes the heated propagator is on the shopping list!

Also hopefully the missing pics should be attached of what the seedlings actually look like!

[Riz]

is that how big they are now ?

you probarley dont feed them anything at the moment as regards to nutes and fertz,

I am slowly getting into palms i was thinking of buying the tree fern (log) that you can plant in the garden, but i shall try to germinate some palm seeds over ramadhan, Keep the pics coming tahir :)

ps.. how big are the ones in your garden ?

[tahir_phoenix]

yes - the leaves on these are now about 10cm and growing slowly! And yes you're right I don't give them anything other than plain water at the moment, maybe next summer (if they survive the winter) I'll start feeding them.

Tree ferns are great and I was tempted to get one but they next extra attention through our frosty winters/springs.

I've attached a few pics of the larger palms I have in the garden (to give an idea of scale thats a 7ft high fence behind them), as u can see I'm a little bit mad about palms - ps: ignore the messy garden, it needs a lot of work which I will inshallah start next year after I've finished working on other people's gardens!

I've also got a red abyssinian banana plant (ensete maurelli) which is currently growing like a rocket - 3 feet in 3 months!! I'll try and get some pictures posted next week.

[~Obsidian~]

Just spotted a date seed..thinking to do this myself! I shall go and soak the seed soon inshAllah..

[~Obsidian~]

Jackpot :D Discovered a ton of date seeds waiting for me :D soaked them, cleaning them as I go along (when I change the water) and I have no idea which type they are! :confused: got quite a few though so inshAllah at least one will germinate :o

[tahir_phoenix]

Good luck and let me know how u get on with them! :scene1:

[~Obsidian~]

Will do InshAllah. I have been cleaning them as I go along, but when it comes to the middle I'm slightly confused, shall I scarify (? - funny word that) that too? I won't damage anything if I do?

(Edit- scarify reminds me of scalariform! Xylem cell wall :))

[tahir_phoenix]

The middle bit (around the groove) doesn't need too much scarification :) as the root will come from the other side of the seed.
Your right scarify is a strange word but i see it the same way as scarifying a lawn ie. raking the moss and weeds off the surface of the grass to give the new grass blades a chance.

[~Obsidian~]

Thanks

Root comes out from bottom? That little circular depression, I was wondering about that!

[~Obsidian~]

My last batch of date seeds didn't work out, they were tossed out :(

I've got a new batch, and I found an easier method of germinating on the net, gonna try that :o

The other method (http://www.personal.u-net.com/~treetops/dateseed.html)

[tahir_phoenix]

My last batch of date seeds didn't work out, they were tossed out :(

Salaam - sorry to hear about the seeds not working out, how long did you keep them for? I've been trying a few different methods and had good results.

I've had great success with the seeds being wrapped in a damp tissue (as per the mango seed thread) and placing in a sealed plastic bag and placed on a windowsill, almost all the seeds have germinated including a new variety I bought a month ago, these are all potted up and now I'm waiting for the first leaf to show up.

Also good success rate with the plastic bottle method which I will post photos of hopefully next week. Basically cut in half a 2 Ltr plastic bottle , empty and washed out of course, using a sharp scissors (this is Blue Peter material!). Then fill the bottom half with 50/50 mix of sand and compost and place your seeds inside around the edges and add some water. Put the top half of the bottle back on and tape up the join where it was cut to seal up and then leave on a windowsill and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait...... mine germinated after 4-5 weeks and you can see the root going down the side of the bottle :) so no need to keep opening it until the roots long enough to pot up.

But as I said before growing palms from seeds takes a while so patience is the most important thing but keep trying.

What method have you seen on the net?

[~Obsidian~]

WaAlaykum AsSalaam,

I only kept them for a little while, but they were suspended in water for quite a while and were going quite manky so I thought it was best to toss them out. I have quite a few new ones now so I think I'll try each method. I posted a link to that other method at the bottom of the post that I mentioned it on...except I had to substitute the vermiculite :D

[tahir_phoenix]

Thanks I spotted the link now :) and yes I tried this method ages ago and its still not working for me but give it a try and see what happens.

[~Obsidian~]

I'd try the windowsill one except the areas near my windows are cold...so it feels like I'd be negating the provision of sunlight to the bag by taking away the warmth :confused:

[tahir_phoenix]

I'd try the windowsill one except the areas near my windows are cold...so it feels like I'd be negating the provision of sunlight to the bag by taking away the warmth :confused:

Thats a very good point! I'm lucky enough to have a radiator under mine and now becoz of the colder evenings my seeds/plants should get plenty of warmth, let me know how you get on :)

[~Obsidian~]

I have radiators under mine too, they just don't seem to fight the aura of cold that the windows have! I guess I'll wait til it's very cold and the radiators are on alot to try that out. I'll let ya know if anything happens inshAllah

[~Obsidian~]

WUHOOO!!

Date stones, soaked for a few days, scarified (one layer), 50/50 sand-compost mix, food bag, about a tablespoon of water, on top of the boiler.

WE HAVE ROOTS, PEOPLE!!

I dunno exactly how many yet, I was just poking through the bag and spotted them :D

Can I leave them up there for longer (so the roots get longer, they're currently about a cm long at most) or shall I pot them now? :D

I just realised I bagged them about 10/11 days ago. WUHOO!! Super fast germination!

[Riz]

WUHOOO!!

I just realised I bagged them about 10/11 days ago. WUHOO!! Super fast germination!

well done, I am honestly impressed :) . They look like a blade of grass when they grow eh !!


:scene1:

[~Obsidian~]

Thank ya

I went through the bag for a while and found 6 of them had roots, I had put quite a few in there so if there are any more with roots hopefully they'll becom apparent in the next few weeks!

Here are some pictures I took before I potted them

(I'm now aware that my photo taking skills have become really bad, this was a 10MP camera!!!)

[tahir_phoenix]

WUHOOO!!

Can I leave them up there for longer (so the roots get longer, they're currently about a cm long at most) or shall I pot them now? :D

I just realised I bagged them about 10/11 days ago. WUHOO!! Super fast germination!


Germination in less than two weeks :eek: thats brilliant, where did u keep the bag to get such good results????

I should pot them up (in a deep pot) now as the root will grow quite long and gives them a chance to get growing before the really cold weather hits us, its starting to get pretty chilly in the evenings now and thru the nite!

I'll post a few update photos this week to show u how far mine have progressed cos it will be a good few weeks before u see any signs of the first leaf - mind u in ur case it could be a few days with superfast germination like that!!! :)

Well done!

[~Obsidian~]

I kept the bag on top of the boiler/water heater. The pot I put them in isn't that deep..darn...how long do the roots tend to get approx? LOL @ few days, heres to hoping! Yaay more pics please, I was wondering what was meant to happen to them after the initial blade of grass stage?

inshAllah they grow quickly!:sunny:

[~Obsidian~]

Which reminds me, have you ever tried to grow the stones of 'anjoman' dates? They're dates from iran

[Riz]

so they germinate from the middle of the kernel, i always thought it would be from the pointy end :)

they look great, you have so many you can give some away as eid presents.. Do you have a macro mode on your camera ?

[~Obsidian~]

so they germinate from the middle of the kernel, i always thought it would be from the pointy end :)

they look great, you have so many you can give some away as eid presents.. Do you have a macro mode on your camera ?

Ya odd about the germination isn't it? I would have thought the same if it wasn't for the odd circular depression, I think that they are originally attached to the date cluster by the pointy end.

Yess I would love to give them away as eid presents but I'm waiting for them to develop their blades of grass before I go doing that, otherwise people will think I am a nut giving them a pot of sandy soil :D

Yes I had macro mode on! I never used to take such pants pictures :(

[tahir_phoenix]

I was wondering what was meant to happen to them after the initial blade of grass stage?

inshAllah they grow quickly!:sunny:

Well mine are still at the grass blade stage - as u can see from the pics! I decided to pot 2 seedlings together in an attempt to make a super twin trunk palm :D

Unfortunately my highly inventive green fingered plan seems to have backfired :( as only one of the seedlings has continued to grow (one on the right) the other hasn't budged a mm! I'll leave it to see if it recovers and catches up with its sibling:)

Also if u look at the close up pic u can just about see the 2nd leaf coming thru, bear in mind I potted these up around mid august!!!

Inshallah if they survive the winter they should start looking more like proper palms around next summer.

The third photo is of a Trachycarpus Fortunei (chinese windmill palm) which still only has one leaf but is coming along great!

I'm trying other varieties like Butia capitata (jelly palm), also a red sealing wax palm (has red leaves) but these are still in the bag with nothing rooting :(

I've had minor success with a Phoenix Roebellini (dwarf date palm), one seed germinated from 10 so far but its early days as I only placed them in the bag 3 weeks ago!

[~Obsidian~]

LOL Is it possible that one is leeching the nutrients from around the other?

The rest of those sound quite exotic, did you buy the seeds from somewhere? I think that for me palm tree growing is too risky to risk wasting the money on seeds that I might not be able to germinate:rolleyes:

Did you cover them over with vermiculite? Oh and, how quickly would the date palm take to reach a decent size?

Last question just occurred to me: is the phoenix part of your name derived from the date Family name?:D

[tahir_phoenix]

LOL Is it possible that one is leeching the nutrients from around the other?

The rest of those sound quite exotic, did you buy the seeds from somewhere? I think that for me palm tree growing is too risky to risk wasting the money on seeds that I might not be able to germinate

Did you cover them over with vermiculite? Oh and, how quickly would the date palm take to reach a decent size?

Last question just occurred to me: is the phoenix part of your name derived from the date Family name?:D

Salaam and Eid Mubarak!!! So many questions :D

Ok 1st one - Not sure if one seedling is taking the nutrients for the other but will check this out with Riz - he's the genius gardener!

2nd - I bought most seeds off ebay (apart from the dates) quite cheap, only £2.00 for around 10 seeds (including postage). I've read into a lot of detail and some seeds can take upto 12 months to germinate :eek: so I need to leave them and keep my fingers crossed!

3rd - Vermiculite - yes I tried that method along with normal compost and also the plastic bag with seeds wrapped in damp tissues (like mango seed thread). The vermiculite was rubbish, no seeds germinated, waited 8 weeks before giving up. The plastic bag has been the quickest and best method with 95% germination in 3 weeks!!!

4th - In terms speed of growth it depends on where u live, down south (UK) around kent and london they can grow pretty big cos its not like windy, rainy, grimy northy like where I live. But kept inside and in a nice warm spot with plenty of light in a 3-4 years they should be 2-3 feet with loads of leaves. Check these down south http://www.hardytropicals.co.uk/Palms/Phoenix_Canariensis_at_Southsea.php

Last question - The phoneix name, unfortunately its not the family name its from my favourite palm the phoenix variety (cos of the beautiful massive feather shaped leaves) see the pics I've attached and u'll see why. Also its the palm mentioned in the quran and gives one of the tastiest dates u can find!

By the way I'm also going to try some yellow date seeds I bought during Ramadan so will keep u posted with progress :natur014:1092

1093

1094

[~Obsidian~]

WaAlaykumAsSalaam :D yes I'm rather inquisitive

2 - good luck with those seeds, 12 months is a LOOOONG time
3- aye the vermiculite was pants, I was just wondering if thats what you've got on the top of your pots?
4- Does that mean that in London, I can keep them outdoors?
5-Aye that's what I meant :o I'm just bad with the terminology! Phoenix Dactylifera was in my head at the time ya see

Yellow date seeds? I see them everywhere, might try too if I see blades of grass! What does the date taste like though?

[tahir_phoenix]

The stuff I put on top of the soil is white spar, nice sparkly stuff when it gets water on it - i had half a bag left over so its gone into the pots!

If ur in london u should get better weather than us northys and can put the plants outside in the summer - but watch out for the squirrels :)

The yellow date is basically an unripe date (the ripe ones are brown and soft) and these are very firm and crunchy like an apple. I was told they taste sweet but to be fair they taste a bit appley and tangy!!

[~Obsidian~]

You can't even put them out in the summer? :eek: oh boy don't even make me think about the squirrels!!

It's a calculated risk putting things out in the summer, because it comes in little spurts of 4/5 days at a time!

[Riz]

You can't even put them out in the summer? :eek: oh boy don't even make me think about the squirrels!!

It's a calculated risk putting things out in the summer, because it comes in little spurts of 4/5 days at a time!

if you put them out mid-may in your little plastic greenhouse you should be ok, i have this great gadget its a thermometer and it shows indoor and outdoor temps and you can programme it so when the temps drop outside you get an alert, if you are feeling adventrous you could get one that shows humidity levels aswell.

[~Obsidian~]

Thats well nifty!!

I found a couple more roots today :D

[Riz]

cant wait to germinate my date kernels..

i will be putting them under lights. they will grow twice as fast :)

[~Obsidian~]

cant wait to germinate my date kernels..

i will be putting them under lights. they will grow twice as fast :)

LOL!! Sound like a petulant child there :D

[Riz]

:fishing:

gone fishin :)

[Riz]

First time i have ever tried to germinate a seed kernel thanks to MR.T (threadstarter)

I had 1/4 of perlite laying around from last season so i mixed 70% perlite 30% potting soil mix in a green tray.

[Riz]

i left the date kernels soaking in warm water overnight, around a dozen seeds..

i spaced them out 3 in a row so 9 all together, just layed them on top and gently pushed them down just below the soil line and then gave them a good watering.

[Riz]

i inserted the tray in a sandwich baggie and left on windosill .. :)

[~Obsidian~]

And the countdown begins...:D

[~Obsidian~]

Ah wait...didn't you clean them? And I swear by the sand/compost mix, it's perfect!!

[~Obsidian~]

Those roots grow REALLY fast don't they :confused: I haven't had opportunity to pot up the new roots and they are now quite long (and they've changed direction a couple of times...whoops!..)..I'm still waiting for the blade of grass though :p

[~Obsidian~]

Okay yeah I know it's my fourth post in a row but I don't care! :p

I potted up the date seeds, there were three more with (long) roots in total, and two with no roots yet (one on the verge of it). I also put more seeds in the bag (yes I know I've already potted 9 but I'm still in the process of hoping any survive!!). The new seeds were from another method, they just dried out in the other container and sat there so I stuck em in the germination bag! InshaAllah I'll try not to disturb it for at least a week because I don't want wonky roots again, they are NOT fun to pot up!!

:sunny:

Ooo I almost forgot to ask, how are date seeds with being repotted? Because I've got them all in two pots atm (5 in one and 4 in another) and when they are older I wish to give some away, so I'll need to dig 'em out and repot.

[Riz]

when you want to repot the little seedling, just try to take out the whole root ball intact and pot on, quit simple really...

the date palm seeds are quite addictive :)

[~Obsidian~]

I meant how do they cope with it! Yeah they are addictive! I so wanna see a blade of grass so that I can give them away!!

[Riz]

a little tip...

if you pot into a bigger container and you are growing indoors on the windowsill. its always a good idea ( in my opinion) to leave the soil that you will need ( for the bigger pot) indoors at room temps so when you transplant your little baby the roots wont be in cold soil so it wont be a shock to them.. you should not have any problems if you take out the root ball intact and pot on in room temp soil..

[edibles]

theirs a massive date palm down the road from where i lve
i read somwer on this thread that date palms cant go out for winter but i found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardy_palms

[~Obsidian~]

So Riz, any sign of a root yet? :)

[Riz]

So Riz, any sign of a root yet? :)

nothing at the moment.. :scene1:


how are yours doing !?!?

[Riz]

I got the dates of my mum who had some packets left from ramadhan, she had them in the fridge and they were really cold..So dunno maybe the cold killed them, Its too early though to tell as its only been around 7 days....

[~Obsidian~]

nothing at the moment.. :scene1:


how are yours doing !?!?

Roots are just getting loong (the second batch I put into a transparent bottle so I can see) no sign of any leaves yet. I'm seriously trying hard not to overwater them but the pot looks odd full of dry dirt!!

[tahir_phoenix]

Roots are just getting loong (the second batch I put into a transparent bottle so I can see) no sign of any leaves yet. I'm seriously trying hard not to overwater them but the pot looks odd full of dry dirt!!

Salaam - a transparent bottle :eek: - thats what I put my 3rd batch into, its a brilliant idea cos as u said u can see the root going down the side (no messy fingers) + the seeds germinated quicker in the bottle for me. The dry dirt - should be moist not too dry. How often do u water them and where are u keeping the pots?

As I said ages ago the blade like leaf will take a few weeks to appear after u have potted the seed, I've only just had a bunch of seeds starting to show leaves which I potted way back in early september!!!

[~Obsidian~]

Keeping the pots on the boiler (which is next to a window) and yeah the transparent bottle is awesome cuz I can track the progress!! I'm watering it whenever I feel the soil is too dry, not often maybe every few days?

Guess I've got quite a wait then!

[Riz]

I have put the green tray under some tube lights ( 75watt) and i left one tray at the windowsill... not much to report though...:D

[~Obsidian~]

When did you pot them? I thought (going by your post) it was the 9th?

WaAlaykum Salaam tahir (sorry forgot last time :eek:) I forgot to say I got the bottle idea from you, and that root is getting very long! It's nearing the bottom of the bottle!! :eek:

[Riz]

yeah. so its been around 2 weeks... cant wait for them to pop out. ;)

[~Obsidian~]

Are you observing when the root comes out or are you waiting for leaves?

[Riz]

Are you observing when the root comes out or are you waiting for leaves?

its in a green tray so i cant really see the roots.. still have another 2 weeks before they show anything though.... so i am waiting for the leaf.. they grow very similar to bamboo seeds i have noticed, as in its just a single blade of grass which pops out ..

[~Obsidian~]

Gordon Bennet! Gonna be a while before mr grass pops up :smack: I was hoping you'd keep an eye out for the appearance of the roots so we could see if there was any truth to your claim that yours'd grow faster :D

[tahir_phoenix]

When did you pot them? I thought (going by your post) it was the 9th?

WaAlaykum Salaam tahir (sorry forgot last time :eek:) I forgot to say I got the bottle idea from you, and that root is getting very long! It's nearing the bottom of the bottle!! :eek:

Best thing to do is take the seed out now and pot it up into as deep a pot as you can find, that root will still keep growing. If you leave it in the bottle it shouldn't cause any probs coz the root will just curl around the base - Riz will let us know if this slows the growth down or causes any issues but I don't think it will.

[tahir_phoenix]

cant wait to germinate my date kernels..

i will be putting them under lights. they will grow twice as fast :)


Salaam Riz

Lights will def speed things up once the leaf appears but date seeds can germinate in total darkness. Also I read somewhere that the warmer the soil the quicker the seedlings grow. Do u use soil heating cables at all - i wanted to know if they were any good cos I have a propagator now and its not made the germination of the seeds any quicker :( in fact the plastic bottle method was quicker!! I also read this guy had a palm planted in his garden with heating cables under the soil to stop the frost from killing it. However he forgot to turn the thermostat down and temp was around 32 degrees which sent the palm crazy and new leaves started appearing from the crown but becoz it was winter and days were shorter (not enuf light) it almost killed the poor palm - it had heat but no light for the leaves to absorb nutrients etc. He said it took 3 years for it to recover :eek: Make sure u give them enuf light and heat during winter if outside!

[tahir_phoenix]

Forgot something Riz - I wanted to pick ur green fingered brains :) I had 3 palm seedlings (as seen in 1st pic) all spaced out but I wanted to repot them and create a MEGA palm with three trunks :tree-huggin: however my plan has backfired cos one seedling (smallest one) didn't survive and has been removed, out of the other two only one seems to be growing (as seen in 2nd pic) . Can you shed some light on this mystery - whats going on, is it cos I planted them too close to each other? Is one taking the nutrients from the other?? :confused:

[Riz]

Salaam Riz

Lights will def speed things up once the leaf appears but date seeds can germinate in total darkness. Also I read somewhere that the warmer the soil the quicker the seedlings grow.
:GreenThumbs:
Do u use soil heating cables at all - i wanted to know if they were any good cos I have a propagator now and its not made the germination of the seeds any quicker :(heating cables are good and they do work.. is the propagator heated ? if so what's the max temp on it ?
I also read this guy had a palm planted in his garden with heating cables under the soil to stop the frost from killing it. However he forgot to turn the thermostat down and temp was around 32 degrees which sent the palm crazy and new leaves started appearing from the crown but becoz it was winter and days were shorter

goodness,,, lol

Ill look into heating cables T . because they are a great idea and very flexible to use.. You could make your own grow box and place the heating cables under the soil to the temperature which is best suited for germination and away you go...

[Riz]

Forgot something Riz - I wanted to pick ur green fingered brains :) I had 3 palm seedlings (as seen in 1st pic) all spaced out but I wanted to repot them and create a MEGA palm with three trunks :tree-huggin: however my plan has backfired cos one seedling (smallest one) didn't survive and has been removed, out of the other two only one seems to be growing (as seen in 2nd pic) . Can you shed some light on this mystery - whats going on, is it cos I planted them too close to each other? Is one taking the nutrients from the other?? :confused:
I think its because as you already said the palm seedlings were planted too close together and the roots are competing for the moisture and the goodness in the soil.

Its possible to do this but you will have to wait until the palm seedlings get a lot bigger and the root ball is well established and then you can grow 3 of the palm plants in one huge container and manipulate the lower stems ( as in twist them around and gently tie them around each other for a few months, as the stem fattens up you will have to un-loosen it ( i use cloth to tie plants) that could work as i have done something similar to a hibiscus plant i had once ( i forget the name)

[Riz]

2 of the date kernels have germinated, the "taproot" came out :)

[Riz]

surprisingly though the ones i started in the perlite/potting soil mix have shown no sign of germination, but the ones i started on a later date in just perlite, ive had 2 that have germinated...

[~Obsidian~]

Wooo!

Are they in different locations?

[Riz]

no. both of them are next to the radiator in the same room :0

[~Obsidian~]

Hmm....guess the perlite is preferable to them.

cant wait to germinate my date kernels..

i will be putting them under lights. they will grow twice as fast :)

:D

[Riz]

Does the kernel just drop of by itself eventually, i was wondering if could take it of manually to reveal the single leaf, but maybe its still developing i should really leave it ?

[tahir_phoenix]

Does the kernel just drop of by itself eventually, i was wondering if could take it of manually to reveal the single leaf, but maybe its still developing i should really leave it ?

:eek: No don't remove the kernel / seed! When I was repotting my 1st three seedlings I accidentally pulled the leaf off the seed and it just died within a week. The early seedling gets most nutrients from the seed rather than the soil. I think ur right eventually the kernel will drop off once the seedling has a few leaves.

Here's a link showing you an image of how the root and leaf are growing and still connected to the seed, the picture on the left is for the phoenix date palms

http://www.palms.org/principes/1999/palmseeds.htm

Also have attached are 2 jpgs regards winter protection for the musa which might help you - will u be setting up any options to attach PDFs as I couldn't attach this original file as a PDF?

[Riz]

:eek: No don't remove the kernel / seed! When I was repotting my 1st three seedlings I accidentally pulled the leaf off the seed and it just died within a week. The early seedling gets most nutrients from the seed rather than the soil. I think ur right eventually the kernel will drop off once the seedling has a few leaves.

Here's a link showing you an image of how the root and leaf are growing and still connected to the seed, the picture on the left is for the phoenix date palms

http://www.palms.org/principes/1999/palmseeds.htm


Nice one T..

just what i need to read :)

looks like both containers i have are buzzing with activity, i will leave one on the windowsill next to the radiator and ill put the other container under a 35watt light, just to see which ones unravel its leafs first.

It Snowed last night i thought it would clear up in the morning or the afternoon,, came home went to the garden and i couldn't even see the musa basjoo it was under some snow, completely flattened,

[~Obsidian~]

I have shoots, people!! :D

I haven't really been paying attention to them so I think these shoots are possibly 3-4 days old (they're about 2-3cm long?) anywhoo they're light green, not enough light probably so I don't think they'll survive. But thats only two shoots, I can see another is going to come out very soon and hopefully this one'll get more light (I moved the bottle)!

So thats....19th Sept - 26th/27th Oct...between 5 to six weeks from date stone to shoot! :D Obsidian is happy!

[Riz]

Congrats.. :)

so can you see any leafs !?

[~Obsidian~]

And theres another two shoots poking out of the other, smaller container. They're very small though (and very light green again. D'oh!) I'm afraid this container was carried off by someone and left somewhere! Anywhoo, it's back in the light now, will see what happens!

[tahir_phoenix]

Well done Obsidian!! How many in total have sprouted leaves from the seeds you planted?? I've had another 5 sprout leaves but I planted a lot more than that, some seem to take longer than others.

Don't worry about the light green colour, mine were the same and then a few weeks later as the leaf develops it should turn a darker green and look more like a palm leaf!

Anyway well done and make sure to plant some more - if you have the space :D

[~Obsidian~]

Thank you :D I've had four in total sprout 'leaves' (they're more like spikes :eek:) and they look pretty white, although the tallest one has had something else emerge from it that is darker green so I'm guessing thats the leaf! I can see that one is on the cusp of sprouting, and I think I planted nine in total so still awaiting 5.

Can't plant anymore atm, got me hands full with these!

:tree-huggin:

[Riz]

i potted one of the them today in its own pot.. i had some potting soil around the house so i used that and made an insertion in the soil and then just gently placed the root and covered it with soil, sprinkled some water over the pot and wrapped some cling film around the pot and now it seems happy on the radiator.. will let you now if anything intresting happens.. i have a few more kernels that have surfaced from the germination tray...

[~Obsidian~]

Kernels that have surfaced? How?


My root/shoot things are weird...the shoots have come directly out of the root, not the seed :eek:

[tahir_phoenix]

My root/shoot things are weird...the shoots have come directly out of the root, not the seed :eek:

Yes well spotted - but be very careful not to pull too much on the leaf when repotting as from my experience I pulled too hard and the leaf came off the seed the root was attached to, i still potted it hoping it would be ok but it died within a week :( But i'll learn from it and be more careful next time :D

Are u still growing urs in the plastic bottle??

[~Obsidian~]

Yes well spotted - but be very careful not to pull too much on the leaf when repotting as from my experience I pulled too hard and the leaf came off the seed the root was attached to, i still potted it hoping it would be ok but it died within a week :( But i'll learn from it and be more careful next time :D

Are u still growing urs in the plastic bottle??

The leaf came off of the seed? :confused: My shoot thing is not attached to the seed at all..to show you what it looks like without showing a photo, I have attached a proper scientific drawing (:p)

Yes they're still in the bottle! (another two are in a small plant pot, dunno what happened to the roots but I have two shoots from them).

[tahir_phoenix]

:eek: This is a work of art! Makes my jpg attached worthless !

Don't worry this is normal with Phoenix palms. To go into the exciting scientific details there's 2 types of germination:

1) Remote germination - this is where the leaf/seedling will grow away from the seed attached by the main tap root. This is the one I broke and detatched the leaf from the seed completely, leading to instant death of the palm :(

2) Adjacent germination - this is where the leaf/seedling grows right next to the seed and the roots spread out.

So don't panic ur palm is still ok and growing fine :)

[~Obsidian~]

BWAHAHAHAHA!! :D Thank you for alleviating my fears :D

[~Obsidian~]

I finally have some pictures! Gimme a sec to post them though, bit big (and kinda blurry as per usual :()

Ooh they're too big! Another time inshaAllah

Heres a pic of the longest one...it was nowhere near this tall a few days ago :eek:

[Riz]

:GreenThumbs: very good

how far down has the root travelled so far ?!.. i have noticed that my green trays are quite shallow

[~Obsidian~]

Well the root has gone very far down, completely to the bottom and has probably twisted off somewhere too. It is in a bottle two thirds high, to give you an approximation? Heres a pic of one of the roots as well, the one with blatant remote germination.

Although I have a couple in a much smaller pot that have germinated too, I think the root has just taken turns in there? Although not all of the ones in there have germinated so I'm wondering if they haven't been choked. out by the biggest ones

[Riz]

good pic..

they do shoot down don't they :0

[Riz]

i just checked mine out.. the ones in the green trays are looking good now as well, i checked the bottom of the tray and i saw a root poking through the holes :) , i should really pot them on.. kinda slows them down a little when you re pot them i have noticed, i have two individual ones in pots but no signs of any activities from them at the moment.

[Riz]

another one that need potting on aswell in another tupperware container :)

[tahir_phoenix]

i should really pot them on.. kinda slows them down a little when you re pot them i have noticed, i have two individual ones in pots but no signs of any activities from them at the moment.

Yes you're right on both points, you should pot the seeds when the root is a few cms long and yes when in the pot this slows them down but I have a good tip!

I place most of my palms on a windowsill right above a radiator so they get the bottom heat they need, this has helped them keep growing.

Also one palm I've put into my heated propagator and this has grown so fast so i've had to leave the air vent open to let the leaf poke out the top:)

[Riz]

nice pics..

the little seedling is coming along really well :)

cant wait for mine to pop out..

[Riz]

things are looking good.. i have at least 2 of them which are turning a nice green and another 4 which are coming through..

[~Obsidian~]

:eek:

Go Riiiz! Go Riiz!:sunny:

All 9 of mine have sprouted, and are getting taller.

[Riz]

thanks :)

i have re potted 6 of them in smaller containers..

here is a bad pic of one of them including the root system

[tahir_phoenix]

Well done riz - keep those palms growing!

This is a great photo by the way - but the root doesn't look too long or did you just take the pic of the top part of the seedling??

[Riz]

Well done riz - keep those palms growing!

This is a great photo by the way - but the root doesn't look too long or did you just take the pic of the top part of the seedling??

Thanks T

its because of yourself i got interested in growing them..

the seed tray was very shallow so that's why the root isn't very long, but they are all in individual pots now.. pics later on tonight.

[Riz]

some in individual pots.. i built a sophisticated humidity dome out of cling film and two plastic clothes peg, full instructions on how to design the dome to come later ( and yes i am being sarcastic ) :)

[Riz]

tried one in some tissue, but because of my own stupid fault i let it dry out for a few days ( i forgot about it) and the root has dried up.. it would have been better if i wrapped it in tissue and then inserted it in a sandwich baggie .... duh !!!

[~Obsidian~]

:D brill! I should create one of those domes meself...time to do the blue peter/How2 presenters proud! :D

[edibles]

wooooooohhhhhhh!!!!!!!!:):) i finally got a sprout!!!

ive been toying withing growing dates since the end of Ramadan and i finally got a sprout. when i checked 1 stone was rotting and another had sprouted the smallest cutest root

i think i may be getting into gardening:):)

[~Obsidian~]

WOOOO!!! Go you!!

[edibles]

is the taproot supposed to cling to and go round the kernel?

Riz were are u going to put your coconut palm after it inshallah sprouts and grows to big for the inside of your house

[Riz]

hi edibles..

I think the kernel just withers away and dies off...

some more pics of my palm date seedlings... i have nine that germinated in different stages of growth,,

[~Obsidian~]

is the taproot supposed to cling to and go round the kernel?

Riz were are u going to put your coconut palm after it inshallah sprouts and grows to big for the inside of your house
Doesn't matter really which way it goes.
hi edibles..

I think the kernel just withers away and dies off...

some more pics of my palm date seedlings... i have nine that germinated in different stages of growth,,

Dude they look good! Look how wide that leaf is...mine are puny lol not enough light or heat.

[Riz]

its quite broad ( probably a different strain of palm tree than yours) a few more pics i taken ...today

[~Obsidian~]

They look really nice and healthy

Mine haven't been getting enough light or heat so they are not as big, I shall stick a picture up soon as I get one iA

[Riz]

They look really nice and healthy


yeah..

because i cheated, and they are under a light for 5 hours per day..:eek:

[~Obsidian~]

Lol

[Tania]

Are small white stones in one pot or a certain fertilizer ?

[Riz]

Are small white stones in one pot or a certain fertilizer ?

that is called perlite its naturally occurring siliceous rock. typically formed by the hydration of obsidian.. ( i know someone who is called that) I only use perlite if i have some exotic seeds to germinate, it is a bit expensive i feel :)



Horticultural Applications

In horticultural applications, perlite is used throughout the world as a component of soilless growing mixes where it provides aeration and optimum moisture retention for superior plant growth. For rooting cuttings, 100% perlite is used. Studies have shown that outstanding yields are achieved with perlite hydroponic systems. Other benefits of horticultural perlite are its neutral pH and the fact that it is sterile and weed-free. In addition, its light weight makes it ideal for use in container growing. Other horticultural applications for perlite are as a carrier for fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides and for pelletizing seed. Horticultural perlite is as useful to the home gardener as it is to the commercial grower. It is used with equal success in greenhouse growing, landscaping applications and in the home in house plants.


http://www.perlite.net/

[Tania]

Sounds good and i think this are the 'stones' what needs the lemon tree too. I have to look after that in the gardeners shops - to see if i can found it.

[Riz]

^ the roots grow faster in perlite because the roots are not meeting resistance like with soil.

some more pics of the date palm seedlings.... so out of 9 in a green tray, i have 5 date palm seedlings, the rest of them did not survive after i transplanted them in small individual pots.

[~Obsidian~]

How big are your pots Riz? I want to transplant mine but the roots are so long I don't know what sized pot to get :confused:

[Riz]

regular seedling pots and one in a pot noodle pot.. if you see roots poking out from the bottom, it doesn't mean its root bound or anything...

[~Obsidian~]

Ah righty, JazakhAllah!

[edibles]

Riz do you keep your plants on heated trays to warm them up

by the way that one with black stripes looks amazing

[Riz]

NO, no heated trays

i have them under a 400 watt hps ( high pressured sodium light) for 4 hours per day... so they grow well, even now compared to the last pics they have grown a lot bigger

[Riz]

How big are your pots Riz? I want to transplant mine but the roots are so long I don't know what sized pot to get :confused:

hi.

Sorry i think i gave you incorrect information. the palm seedling naturally grows a long tap root, it has to, its designed for dry sandy conditions so it goes deep down for the moisture, so the pot should be at least 6 inch deep for palm seedlings... and then once you see the roots poking from under the pot, its time to pot on to a bigger pot..

[~Obsidian~]

Cheers :)

[Riz]

the tallest seedling is around 7 inches tall..

the kernel is still attached to the sheath via The umbilical cord, i am going to snip it of as the sheath is not connected to the blade of grass any more, i guess the date kernel was the " placenta" it would have withered away and shrunk to nothing if i left it.. so snipping is not required.

[~Obsidian~]

Ooh I shall do that at some point! How were you measuring the height of the seedling? From the bottom of the pot or from the soil?

I measured my tallest one from soil level, tis 21.5cm or 8.5 inches tall.

[edibles]

wow my one hasn't even developed its first leaf
my one and only surviving date kernel went dormant after i re potted it

how many set of leaves do they develop before they are of pinnate shape

[~Obsidian~]

No idea how many leaves edibles, but my seedlings are about 3 months old hence the leaf size, how old are yours?

[Riz]

how many set of leaves do they develop before they are of pinnate shape

they don't develop any " set" of leaves, rather just one single blade of grass that unravels and takes shape into the pinnate affect, but other strains of dates might be a slight different shape..

[~Obsidian~]

they don't develop any " set" of leaves, rather just one single blade of grass that unravels and takes shape into the pinnate affect, but other strains of dates might be a slight different shape..

It just occurred to me that that might be happening already :eek:

[edibles]

No idea how many leaves edibles, but my seedlings are about 3 months old hence the leaf size, how old are yours?

mine is about 1 month old but the tap root is only about 2 inches

[~Obsidian~]

Thats not bad, where are you keeping them? I had my stones on the boiler for warmth and they germinated pretty quickly up there, took another month to get a shoot (they were still on the boiler) and then it's a pretty decent growth rate, they've been in front of the window for about a month now.

I found this picture, I'm wondering if this'll happen with our ones too
http://www.gcnuae.com/dev_3.jpg

[edibles]

i kept mine heated on the fridge till they sprouted now they are in a regular pot with regular soil

[Riz]

I have re potted all of them in pot noodle pots ( discard contents and use pots) don't forget to make a hole at the base for the excess water to flow out. Pot noodle pots are quite deep so it should be cool for the roots....

[Kirsten]

Yay for recycling!!! Good for you :) and good to see the plants are doing well too!!

[~Obsidian~]

I have re potted all of them in pot noodle pots ( discard contents and use pots) don't forget to make a hole at the base for the excess water to flow out. Pot noodle pots are quite deep so it should be cool for the roots....

Wow Riz your roots are tiny, mine are looooooongg

[edibles]

riz's roots are the a little bigger than mine so wheres my leaf, sorry I love dates and really want these to grow

is this normal amongst gardeners or am i crazy

[Riz]

^ take a pic if possible, so we can see it !!!

[Riz]

Wow Riz your roots are tiny, mine are looooooongg

I think because the container was small and not deep the roots coiled around the base of the pot, actually the roots are quite long if i stretched it out..

[~Obsidian~]

I think because the container was small and not deep the roots coiled around the base of the pot, actually the roots are quite long if i stretched it out..

Mine have shot down the bottle and curled around and around into a spiral :D I was judging by one of your pics btw, where you've put it on a plate I think.

It's already at 9 inches and I only measured it a coupla days ago!

[farah]

mash'Allah they're coming along nicely

[Riz]

Some pics i taken today.. they are doing great under lights, they all seem to grow in there own unqiue ways :)

[~Obsidian~]

They look really lush and healthy riz! Mine are tall and skinny :p

[farah]

Sometimes coming on this forum I'm just like that crazy Riz (no offence) trying to grow coco nuts and bananas in weather like this but looking at the pics it goes to show its possible to grow exotic plants if you take proper care and have know-how

[~Obsidian~]

I knoww...isn't it fun?! :tree-huggin:

My tallest date leaf is at 11 inches now Alhamdulillah!

[Riz]

^ cmon then

a pic would be nice !!?

[~Obsidian~]

Okeeey dokeeey, I'll take some soon inshaAllah!

[Riz]

Happy new year everyone :)

My friends father came back from hajj last month, and my friend passed on some dates, small black they look like berries, so i decided to germinate them the same as i did last time.

[edibles]

mines dead the root shrivelled up and died
the moral is never let your parents look after your plants when your away

[Kirsten]

mines dead the root shrivelled up and died
the moral is never let your parents look after your plants when your away

Sorry to hear about that :( I agree with the second part though - my mom fed some of mine to the rabbit.

[edibles]

riz do you know anything about phoenix rupicola i saw some pics of it and its beautiful i know its not as cold hardy as normal date palms but i think i should be ok here in central london

[Riz]

riz do you know anything about phoenix rupicola i saw some pics of it and its beautiful i know its not as cold hardy as normal date palms but i think i should be ok here in central london

no i dont edibles..

ill check it out..

dunno were Tphoneix has disappeared to though, he hasn't logged in for a while...

[tahir_phoenix]

riz do you know anything about phoenix rupicola i saw some pics of it and its beautiful i know its not as cold hardy as normal date palms but i think i should be ok here in central london

Salaam edibles - Phoenix rupicola is almost a hybrid between the canary date palm and the Phoenix Roebellini - basically the truck is more chunkier like the canary palm but the leaves are a bit more softer & feathery like the Roebellini.
Its a great palm if you have the temperatures to grow it, best thing is maybe to bring it indoors during the winter as I have read it can't withstand anything below 2°. If ur in London u have a good chance unlike me in the grimy cold north :(

[tahir_phoenix]

Happy new year everyone :)

My friends father came back from hajj last month, and my friend passed on some dates, small black they look like berries, so i decided to germinate them the same as i did last time.

Happy (belated) New Year to everyone also!! :) how are the hajj dates coming along - have any germinated?

[tahir_phoenix]

Some pics i taken today.. they are doing great under lights, they all seem to grow in there own unqiue ways :)

These palms look great Riz - whats with the leaves all curled up? Have u been training them :) Mine are growing tall but slender becoz of the shorter days - i'll try and post some update pics later in the week.

[Riz]

salaam T

welcome back stranger.. lol

yeah everyone of them seems to be an individual.. a few of them are growing there second set of leaves :)

the small date seeds from mecca are still germinating . keep ya posted

[Riz]

here is an update on them.... and the mecca dates are growing a tap root only after 5 days of germination ( pics later)

2nd pic; you can see the second leaf :)

[Tania]

They are growing really fast and i don't see any bug on them.

[~Obsidian~]

MashaAllah Riz those are growing very well!

[tahir_phoenix]

here is an update on them.... and the mecca dates are growing a tap root only after 5 days of germination ( pics later)

2nd pic; you can see the second leaf :)

These are great pics - the extra light you're giving them is making a huge difference, compare them to mine :( The only one that is looking like a proper palm is the trachycarpus Fortunei (the first pic). I can't wait till the spring when we get more daylight and they can start growing properly!

[Riz]

nice work T..

looking good.

i am surprised you have not got yourself some indoor growing lights T. they are so cheap to run and take up a small amount of space.

[Tania]

What plant do you have in the last big pot ? - its look like a little bush :)

[tahir_phoenix]

What plant do you have in the last big pot ? - its look like a little bush :)

The plant in the large pot is a citrus bush (not sure what variety - i will check), you can see it has recently grown a few small satsumas/oranges. Its only small at the moment but I have plans on trying to grow it to a much larger size so its fruit will be more edible :)

[Tania]

It looks very nice.I try to have lemon and orange trees but i am far from that size.

[tahir_phoenix]

It looks very nice.I try to have lemon and orange trees but i am far from that size.

Thanks :) I think the large pot makes the bush look much bigger than it is, I used such a large pot so I don't have to repot it for at least another 2 years now. I always keep the plant on this windowsill where it gets the most sun and there is a radiator under the windowsill so in winter it gets plenty of heat as well and hopefully it will grow even bigger this year :tree-huggin:

[tahir_phoenix]

nice work T..

looking good.

i am surprised you have not got yourself some indoor growing lights T. they are so cheap to run and take up a small amount of space.


I'm hoping to follow ur example this year Riz, i've been too busy with other things last year and neglected a lot of my plants :( but I would need a lot of grow lights as I intend to grow at least 50 palms by the end of 2009 (mainly to give to family and friends) :)

[Riz]

^ thats very kind of you. sharing is one of the best parts of growing... and i definitely recommend the lights, ( the possibilities are endless)

A bad pic of the mecca dates.. i already transplanted one of them in to its own container

[tahir_phoenix]

^ thats very kind of you. sharing is one of the best parts of growing... and i definitely recommend the lights, ( the possibilities are endless)

A bad pic of the mecca dates.. i already transplanted one of them in to its own container

this is looking really good and ur on ur way to having a palm direct from the Holy Land!

Is that perlite u have used over the compost? what is the difference between the perlite and vermiculite?? :confused: and which is better if any?

[Riz]

Perlite and vermiculite are both minerals that have been superheated into very lightweight mediums. They are mainly used in potting soil mixes to decrease soil density. Perlite has similar properties and uses to vermiculite but generally holds more air and less water whereas vermiculite holds more water and less air.


you can just use perlite and no soil to germinate seeds, the little white stones hold air well, but you have to water very often as it runs right through the pot, so some gardeners like myself do a mix maybe 50% soil and 50% perlite

I always use a combination of both when i do a potting mix for exotic seeds T. I feel its expensive so i only use the perlite on certain seeds like germinating bamboo seeds etc.. I have only used vermiculite twice again i feels it really expensive to buy so i don't bother with it . I had some perlite left over from a season ago, went to "no frills" and they had a sale on the perlite so that the only reason why i bought it.

[Riz]

some more pics of the date palm seedlings.. the mecca dates are now growing a tiny green stem also pics later..

[~Obsidian~]

Loovely! You've got two leaves and they're thick...jammy dodger!

Mine are REALLLY tall and skinny, tried to take a pic earlier but they just look like lines!

[Riz]

thanks...

remember though i have them under lights for 5 hours per day...

[~Obsidian~]

Admin: ... straightened it for you :)

[~Obsidian~]

LOL apologies for the pic being wrong way round, just put it straight up from my phone! If you squint a bit you can see the tall skinny things! They're over a foot tall

[tahir_phoenix]

...

:eek: These are amazing and look really healthy! Don't worry about them being tall & skinny, when the days get longer (after March) and we have more heat + light they will fill out and start growing more leaves :)

[~Obsidian~]

JazakhAllah Khayr! :D

One of them is already beginning to get a second leaf. One of the smaller ones has three leaves, it was like that in the first place, started off with three (had me wondering whether the initial leaf had gotten split somehow.

[edibles]

started off with three (had me wondering whether the initial leaf had gotten split somehow.

maybe it will be some strange multiheaded date

[Riz]

very nice :0

they are extremely tall huh. looking great.. well done do you leave them at the windowsill!!?

[~Obsidian~]

maybe it will be some strange multiheaded date
lol!
very nice :0

they are extremely tall huh. looking great.. well done do you leave them at the windowsill!!?

Yep just leave them by the window

[~Obsidian~]

Admin: ... straightened it for you :)

JazakhAllah :D

[Tania]

I bought today i pack of date(from Iran producer) and i will put tomorrow 2 seeds to germinate. I read they are male and female palms. Its any chance to know from how look the seed which its his/her gender?

[Riz]

i don't think you can tell by looking at the kernels Tania... only once they have grown i could be wrong though... were is our resident palm expert MR.T :)

from what i have been reading both male and female date palm trees set fruit..

[tahir_phoenix]

I bought today i pack of date(from Iran producer) and i will put tomorrow 2 seeds to germinate. I read they are male and female palms. Its any chance to know from how look the seed which its his/her gender?

Sorry Tania - Riz is correct, to the best of my knowledge there's no way of telling the gender of the palm by looking at the seeds :confused:

This is why palm cultivation farms (where they grow the dates fruit) have to wait until the palms have grown before they can tell which is which, so they can make sure they have at least a few male trees to pollinate the female dates to create the fruit.

Riz - u wrote "from what i have been reading both male and female date palm trees set fruit.."

I've never heard this, where did u read this from :confused:

[Riz]

i thought i bookmarked the website T.. sorry i cant find it now.. ill look for it again.

i think i read both males and females set fruit but only the male makes the pollen.....

[tahir_phoenix]

i thought i bookmarked the website T.. sorry i cant find it now.. ill look for it again.

i think i read both males and females set fruit but only the male makes the pollen.....

Yeah if u can find it that would be great! I heard that palms can change gender before they are fully mature which makes things even more confusing :confused:

[edibles]

finally i got another date sprout after the murder of the previous one by an unwary parent.

[tahir_phoenix]

finally i got another date sprout after the murder of the previous one by an unwary parent.

that's great news edibles - perfect timing as well, in a couple months inshallah we'll have more light and warmer weather so ur palm should get off to a good start!

[~Obsidian~]

The two tallest seedlings both now measure 16", or 1 foot 4 inches :tree-huggin: Alhamdulillah!

[Riz]

2 of my mecca dates have a single blade of grass emerging :). no sign of activity from the rest of the date kernels though, that's cool with me i only wanted one or two

[dhakiyya]

Salaams everyone :)

I live in Al Ahsa, Saudi Arabia (see my intro thread) - I'd love to try growing date palms, and here in Al Ahsa there's a huge oasis with over 2 million of them. I don't live on the oasis but the climate at least should be right for them!

Any tips would be greatly appreciated, including what sort of things to buy from the garden centre, regards compost, containers etc. I only have a courtyard not an actual garden, but was thinking if I had a large container I could grow a few different things...

I also have a 2yr old so I have to bear that in mind regards growing stuff. :) (as in nothing that can be wrecked too easily!!)

[~Obsidian~]

WaAlaykum AsSalaam

So far I've used a food bag with a 50/50 mix of sand/multi-purpose compost to germinate my date stones (left them in a warm place until they sprouted - the bag had only a littttle bit of water in there).

Then I potted them into an old soda bottle. Again a 50/50 mix, and occasionally water them. Thats it! They aren't even in a particularly hot place, and yet I've got two rather tall ones.

You should be able to emulate that with whatever is to hand (I used nothing specialised) and just pot them on.

Tahir and Riz should be able to give you more specific advice though

[dhakiyya]

thanks sis :) yes will probably do it like that. the sand isn't hard to come by here lol but will have to buy some compost. how long before you have to repot them, if you start them in a bottle like you did?

I'd be interested in ideas for other things to grow here :D once I get some date palm seedlings inshaAllah

My daughter would love these smilies: :butterfly3: :AF2FlowerA036:

[Riz]

salaam dhakiyya..

you shouldn't have any issues with germinating date kernels in S.A i mean if they cant germinate there were can they !!? lol.

just get some soil and compost if you can ( dont know much about saudi gardening lifestyle) keen to learn though :)

and just drop around 12 seeds in a medium size pot, cover with 1/2 inch soil and ( water them well) inshallah you will get them to sprout easily.. date trees grow in very poor conditions (sandy) so it will be ok.

[Riz]

here are some pics of mine , the tallest is around 9 inch tall, each are unique and grow in there own style..

the last pic is the mecca date my friends dad brought back. 2 of these have so far germinated after around 12 days. very tasty dates as well small and reminded me of berries actually.

[~Obsidian~]

thanks sis yes will probably do it like that. the sand isn't hard to come by here lol but will have to buy some compost. how long before you have to repot them, if you start them in a bottle like you did?

I'd be interested in ideas for other things to grow here :D once I get some date palm seedlings inshaAllah

My daughter would love these smilies: :butterfly3: :AF2FlowerA036:

Well its been months and I haven't yet repotted them! There are four in one bottle as well, still surviving. Pot them initially into the longest container you can get your hands on and give the taproot a chance to grow loooong (mine kept on growing when it reached the bottom, turned into a bundle of squiggles).

InshaAllah we can give you some ideas soon!

Do y'all have butterflies in SA? :o

[edibles]

I'd be interested in ideas for other things to grow here
I only have a courtyard not an actual garden, but was thinking if I had a large container I could grow a few different things...

any small-mid sized tropical, subtropical plant or palm, depends what your interested in.
i recommend you look in the local gardening supply shop, or internet supplier.

[tahir_phoenix]

Salaams everyone :)

I live in Al Ahsa, Saudi Arabia (see my intro thread) - I'd love to try growing date palms, and here in Al Ahsa there's a huge oasis with over 2 million of them. I don't live on the oasis but the climate at least should be right for them!

Any tips would be greatly appreciated, including what sort of things to buy from the garden centre, regards compost, containers etc. I only have a courtyard not an actual garden, but was thinking if I had a large container I could grow a few different things...

I also have a 2yr old so I have to bear that in mind regards growing stuff. :) (as in nothing that can be wrecked too easily!!)

Salaam dhakiyya

Welcome to muslimgrower and great to hear someone else interested in palms! Everyone has given you some usual tips to get started so not much I can add :p apart from you're in the perfect part of the world for growing date palms with the high temps and humidity they need.

:eek: An oasis of over 2 million palms!!! I definately need to have a look at that!

And yes growing in a container is your best option if you are struggling with space but in SA it should still grow fast more than double the speed in the UK - make sure to post some pictures of the palms progress please!

[dhakiyya]

thanks for the advice :) will have to find where there's a garden centre and pay them a visit!

Here is Al Ahsa Oasis's entry on the 7 natural wonders of the world site: http://www.new7wonders.com/nature/en/nominees/asia/c/AlhasaOasis/ - you can vote for it if you want :) Unfortunately the picture of it doesn't really do it justice, it's a nice picture of the city (there are two cities next to the oasis and I'm not sure which one this is) I have had a look for better pictures, but can't find any that really do it justice

[dhakiyya]

Do y'all have butterflies in SA? :o

not seen any... might be a different story on the actual oasis. There are actually very few insects that live round here, cause outside the oasis its just desert, the temperature in the middle of summer is over 50 degrees centigrade every day, the ground is so hot you can't walk in the courtyard with bare feet (learned that the hard way LOL) and to be honest most of the insects you see are ants. I've seen several different ant species (don't know the names of any species but they look a lot different from each other) and during the winter you get houseflies and I've seen the occasional other insects..... but in summer you just get the ants. Some of them look a bit like scorpions, with little stubby bodies and long legs, others look like British ants but bigger (some twice the size, some about four times the size) and I even saw ants that were one inch long, in our courtyard!!! I would never have believed it unless I'd seen them!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

[edibles]

ive got 4 in total yay sunny day in my area today:sunny::37:

[~Obsidian~]

not seen any... might be a different story on the actual oasis. There are actually very few insects that live round here, cause outside the oasis its just desert, the temperature in the middle of summer is over 50 degrees centigrade every day, the ground is so hot you can't walk in the courtyard with bare feet (learned that the hard way LOL) and to be honest most of the insects you see are ants. I've seen several different ant species (don't know the names of any species but they look a lot different from each other) and during the winter you get houseflies and I've seen the occasional other insects..... but in summer you just get the ants. Some of them look a bit like scorpions, with little stubby bodies and long legs, others look like British ants but bigger (some twice the size, some about four times the size) and I even saw ants that were one inch long, in our courtyard!!! I would never have believed it unless I'd seen them!!!!!
:eek: so there are some pros to living in the UK then...cuz that sounds terrible! :p
ive got 4 in total yay sunny day in my area today:sunny:
Yaay! :D

[edibles]

salaam guys, how deep do the pots have to be, will a three inch one do

[Riz]

salaam guys, how deep do the pots have to be, will a three inch one do


the deeper the pot the better, thy grow downwards pretty quick, i just re potted one of mine that i had in pot noodle container and the roots were curled around at the base of the pot noodle container a few times....

[edibles]

thanks riz im looking forward to having a date palm(however long it takes)
I prefer them to the overshadowing CIDP date palms.

[~Obsidian~]

I still haven't repotted mine! D'oh! They're leaning all over the place

[tahir_phoenix]

thanks riz im looking forward to having a date palm(however long it takes)
I prefer them to the overshadowing CIDP date palms.

Thats the growing spirit edibles - patience will reward you with a nice healthy palm inshallah!

Why do u prefer the date palms to the CIDP, by the way these are pretty much the same only difference is the location :p

Also check this link of someone who is growing some rare and amazing palms! If only I lived in a nice warm country!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabez...7594455871510/

[tahir_phoenix]

Sorry dodgy link, this should be ok now:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/sets/72157594455871510/

[edibles]

Thats the growing spirit edibles - patience will reward you with a nice healthy palm inshallah!

Why do u prefer the date palms to the CIDP, by the way these are pretty much the same only difference is the location :p

Also check this link of someone who is growing some rare and amazing palms! If only I lived in a nice warm country!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabez...7594455871510/

I like them because the trunk (slightly thinner) leaves little more bluey-silvery.
I also dont like how CIDP because because the leaves are too many too close

[edibles]

here are my seedlings smallest to largest left to right. the third one has strange roots, they split before getting to the bottom.

[Tania]

I like the third seed root. It looks so curly :p

[farah]

the recent nice weather must have helped everyone growing in the UK along with their plants...

[edibles]

so how are every ones doing, mine are fine and shooting down i had to re pot them again the hit the bottom of the pot and stopped growing

the three bigger ones are exactly the same size, but the smaller one has still catching up but has developed.

[~Obsidian~]

Mine are just really tall single leaves, I can't wait til it gets hot enough to leave them outside because if it takes much longer I think they might not survive - they're flopping all over the place!

[edibles]

Mine are just really tall single leaves, I can't wait til it gets hot enough to leave them outside because if it takes much longer I think they might not survive - they're flopping all over the place!

its warming up already, you should be ok soon.

[tahir_phoenix]

Mine are just really tall single leaves, I can't wait til it gets hot enough to leave them outside because if it takes much longer I think they might not survive - they're flopping all over the place!

Are u watering them? and have u got them on a warm, bright windowsill?
Try and post some pics so I can check they're ok.
Mine are still quite tall but a few of the leaves are now starting to become more broader due to the longer days and warmer weather we've had last few weeks :D

[~Obsidian~]

I'll try to post a pic soon. Yeah they're flopping because they're really long - I water them occasionally and they aren't in the best place, and the weather here isn't that good for them to have much sunlight.

[tahir_phoenix]

For all u palm lovers (like me) :p here's some great photos I found off another forum site which I may have joined :rolleyes: of some canary island dates growing in the wild - inshallah one day this is what my back garden will look like :D

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7194&hl=canary+island+date+palm

[~Obsidian~]

Blimey Tahir those pictures are gorgeous, subhanAllah!

Could you imagine walking through that garden..

BTW with my palms, its getting sunnier so I leave them outside now sometimes during the sunniest days and bring them in when the sun is gone - I've tied them to canes as well, they seem fine Alhamdulillah

[Riz]

i have been neglecting mine for a while, didnt even water them for the past 2 weeks...

gave them a good watering just now though!!

[edibles]

i can see a leaf emerging and it is gonna hit 21C today so all is progressing well

[aamirc]

Yay I just realised today that I have 3 of my date seedlings growing. I just stuck in a pot, I didn't even have to soak them in water or scarify them. Did take a while to germinate though I totally forgot about them. On a sad note my transplanted date palm has died.

[Tania]

When you transplanted the palm, have you hurt the roots? or he died from other causes?

[aamirc]

yeh my mum just pulled it out of the ground cause she didn't like where it was growig and stuck it in a pot... She must have damaged the roots. I guess date palms have deep tap roots, so the root must have been damaged.

[edibles]

I planted over a dozen outdoors, just for the sake of it, in an area with no grass so if anything pops up i know what it'll be

[Nife180]

I put 10 seeds in a sandy pot, just to plant them in a public area which no one uses. If nothing is done with that land it's gonna turn to a dump.... At least i'll try to green up the area :p. What do I have to lose?

[Tania]

Nothing.Only benefits :) Someone had your idea with olives and now they grow in a public area and everyone wait for the moment of the first harvest time.

[~Obsidian~]

I put 10 seeds in a sandy pot, just to plant them in a public area which no one uses. If nothing is done with that land it's gonna turn to a dump.... At least i'll try to green up the area :p. What do I have to lose?

Excellent :D

[edibles]

i can see one of the leafs developing on one of two survivors from march, and it developed completely outdoors.
today was a good day

[tahir_phoenix]

Ur becoming an expert palm grower Edibles - even outside in our UK climate, well done! :)

[edibles]

thanks tahir, but i think i should grow a few more species before i can be classed as an expert. tropical gardening for me is second only to growing edibles, thats why ordered banana seeds it is a mixture of both

[Nife180]

They began germinating, I see a tiny white spot in the middle. Which is where the root will emerge. Can't wait for the leaves :)

[edibles]

talk about quick.
:thinking: darn people and their warmer climates

[Nife180]

Lol, It may be awesome for the plants but from during summer, it's the exact opposite for me, that is if i'm not at the beach :)

[Riz]

oby and T

what's the latest on your date palm seedlings !?

its been a while since you updated :)

[tahir_phoenix]

My palms are haveing mixed results - as with other stuff I'm growing!

The date palm - where I planted two seedlings in one pot - has a nice new leaf but the older leaves are looking very "burnt" so I took it out of full sunlight and now keep it in part shade.

The fan palm - is doing great and onto its 3rd leaf and growing very nicely, will need to feed this one with the palm food next month :)

How's everyone else's palms doing??

[~Obsidian~]

Looks good T :GreenThumbs: I have no idea how mine are doing, still mainly a single leaf and floppy despite having been in the sunshine for a few days. :confused: They have small second leaves, I just don't know what to expect honestly! The tips (the very edge) are brown. Kinda like yours in the second pic, but muuuch less.

[edibles]

mine is really coming along, given it as much light as possible, inshallah it will be a good size by the end of the year

[Riz]

my date palm seedlings i re potted in bigger containers and left outside for a while

[edibles]

hello guys
Tahir I was thinking about growing a relatively new species of palm and being a palm lover, I thought you'd like in. It is called parajubaea torallyi var microcarpa and reading descriptions it sounds like a dream palm for britain, it looks a little like a coconut.
It comes from 11500ft(highest of any palm) in a bolivian mountain range, regularly experiencing -7C and rarely seein over 25C.
The only problem is germination(palms themselves cost 60-100 quid)
however after a lot of reasearch it seems they are very easy to germinate just requiring stratification for a few months
so for tahir and any one else who is interested
http://www.paradise-palms.co.uk/parajubaea-torallyi-microcarpa-p-374.html

[tahir_phoenix]

Sounds like a very good choice edibles - go for it, here's a link about germination - it may help:

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Parajubaea/germination.html

I might try this species later this year but I am still waiting for the existing sprouts to start growing - they were potted over a month ago and still no signs of the first leaf!

If you find any others worth growing in our climate let me know :)

[edibles]

I found that link before earlier but thank you any way, I dont know what species your growing but do remember that most palm roots go deep before a shoot is to emerge

[tahir_phoenix]

How is everyone's date seeds/palms coming along?
Tania - have yours sprouted yet and how's your coconuts in the garden??
Edibles - is there any leaves on yours yet?
Riz - how's the Mecca dates, have they sprouted yet?

My fan palm is now on its 4th leaf and inshallah by the end of this season it should look like the baby palm plants you see in the nurseries ;)

[edibles]

hey t if you look at post 233 here (http://www.muslimgrower.com/discussionforum/showpost.php?p=5935&postcount=233)

I'll update soon

[edibles]

Tahir what species of fan palm are you going

[Tania]

No sign of germination from the date seeds :(The coconuts are in the same stage like in winter. I think they feel its not good for them in my garden.

[Nife180]

My need warmth, If you start new ones indoors they have a higher chance of sprouting. I think the cold may have killed them already, My date palms sprouted 15th May, But they are tiny. I forgot all about them.

[tahir_phoenix]

No sign of germination from the date seeds :(The coconuts are in the same stage like in winter. I think they feel its not good for them in my garden.

Yes its difficult if the temperatures are not around 25° C constantly. Which method of germination did u try, the plastic bag method works better for me now :) Also try some new coconuts indoors and see what happens.

And don't give up, u will get there. :GreenThumbs:

[Tania]

I sow the seeds in the garden :) We have between 20-30 degrees during the day ans 10-15 over night.

[tahir_phoenix]

Tahir what species of fan palm are you going

I have seeds for the Trachycarpus Fortunei which is the one in my posts. If you want any seeds let me know and I will send you some unless you already have some - this goes for everyone - but I have a limited number of around 20 seeds, so I will limit it to 5 per person :p

Also if you are an ebayer you can get them cheap on there - i use a seller called chrissy440_0 if you do a search for her shop it should find it, I've attached a link below but not sure if it works:

http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/Chrissys-Palm-Seeds__W0QQ_armrsZ1

[edibles]

trachycarpus are so common here, I like to buck the trend just to be different, I want some phoenix sylvestris seeds right now.

I will wait a year or two before i get parajubaea seeds to see them get tested first

[edibles]

quick update, this is growing very well, also one more germinated

first pic is a little out of focus

[tahir_phoenix]

I have found my seedlings are growing better in the kitchen - not sure why but some in there are onto 2nd set of leaves now - maybe they like the smell of my cooking :p

Ed - have u tried any other varieties of palm yet?

[edibles]

I have found my seedlings are growing better in the kitchen - not sure why but some in there are onto 2nd set of leaves now - maybe they like the smell of my cooking :p

Ed - have u tried any other varieties of palm yet?

I'm too indecisive, you know, should i grow this species that species, should i grow them now in the middle ofthe season or wait till the next season to give them a year to get bigger, so they harden off a little before winter.

i will definitely buy some seeds them just dont know what or when

[Riz]

my date palm seedlings enjoying the sunshine :)